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Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression Mircea ICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)

The 2nd International Conference Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land Athens, Greece 2008





ATLANTIS ISLAND IS DISCOVERED

Atlantis Island



Introduction



The location of Atlantis Island in relation with one of the palaeogeographicimage of Pannonian Basin rely on important previous studies:

1. Studies of mythical palaeogeography published in 1991, in Br atislava (The

XII th International Congress of the Prehistoric and Protohistoric Sciences)

2. Studies of palaeogeography on the Panoniann Basin (2006 ± The XVIII th

Congress of the Carpathian ± Balkans Geological Association - Belgr ade)

3. Studies of paleoclimat (Oslo, 2008 ± The 33rd International Geological Congress ± General contributions to climate change)

4. Bilateral Romanian - Hungarian cooperation (Geological Survey of Romania ±Bucharest and MAFI-Budapest ) ± correlations of the Quaternary

deposits from the East edge of the Pannonian Basin





a. The myths of Atlantisreflects exclusive

Eur opeanpalaeogeogr aphical

realities

Important considerations:






b. These are focused mainly onthe actual Middle

Danube Depression






e. The PannonianLake sur vived

dur ing Quater nar yalmost until the

end of the Pleistocene,

namely until the end of the

Paleolithic

f. The Ir on Gates Gor ge (s.l.) for mation, respectively the interr uption of the endor heic char acter of the Pannonian Basin, can be

connected to the moment of the Moon capture by the Ear th, about 39.000 year s ago






g. This phenomenon canbe correlated to the huge water flow that mar ked, before the Great Flood,

the islands in the Nor ther npar t of the Aegean Sea

(Diodorus Siculus)






h. After thismoment, in the

PannonianDepression

sur vived a relictlake (the Relict

Pannonian

Lake), whose shore

maintained tillthe Great Flood(thus until about9.541 + 2008 =

11.549 year sago) ar ound the

+ 100 melevation

Br atislava, 1991

Fr uka Gor a

Deliblat

area





Fr uka Gor a

DeliblatareaThe Relict Pannonian

Lake


i. The Pannonian

Relict Lake was

characterized by the

presence of two

important islands.

The firstcorresponded to the

actual Hill Fruka

Gora, and the

second one was

represented by

Deliblat area.





Atlantic Sea

Atlantic Sea

Pillars of Heracles

j. The AtlantisIsland (with

Poseidon¶sresidence) can be identified with the actual Deliblat are (with a NW ± SE

or ientation)






k. On this Island (composedat that time only by

Pleistocene deposits, respectively by loess) was

placed the mountain not ver yhigh and not ver y great f r omEvenor ¶s island, mountain

placed in the actual Dumacia

summit area (today ~ 250 m).

Atlantic Sea

Atlantic Sea

Pillars of Heracles






l. The Atlantis ³sunk´ (f r om 11,549year s ago ), following a meteor itesr ain that tr iggered the Great Flood

(biblical Flood), was due to the great increase of the Pannonian

Lake level






l¶. The Atlantis ³sunk´ (f r om 11,549year s ago ), following a meteor ites r ain

that tr iggered the Great Flood (biblicalFlood), was due to the great increase of

the Pannonian Lake level






m. This increase

was accompaniedby huge

quantities of alluvial deposits

(sands and muds)accumulated

especially insome areas of the Relict Pannonian

Lake






n. One of the

impor tantaccumulation areaswas represented by

the area of the Atlantis Island, inwitch the actual

sand dunesrepresented a par tof these delluvialaccumulations

(alluvial deposits)


Legend:1 - Lakes and swamps; 2 - Holocenesands; 3 - Actual lakes Balaton andNeusiedl (Fertö); 4 - Land





o. The area in witchPoseidon would had built

his ³for tress´ could be placed in the SE of the

Atlantis Island






p. If the hydr otechnic wor ks of the Atlantis Island represented a reality, these were dug in the loess deposits

(fact that seems to be credible)

Loess deposit near

Dupljaja (Vojvodina,Serbia)






r . More precisely, the centre

of the Poseidon¶ssettlement ( with the island

having a circular shape) canbe connected by the tr iangle

for med by the actualheights ar dak (159,1 m ),

Ke ja Lahului (157 m), andCr ni vr h (189 m)






s. A more suitable

placement implies the area with the actualtopogr aphic name ³Er onja´, placed

between the heightsar dak and Ke ja

Lahului

Er onja f r omEnor ja (by

r hotacism )and Enor ja(Enor ia) f r om(Ev) enor =

Evenor






t. The toponyms Deliblato (Big Mud ) and Major Bar a (Big Swamp) f r om the same area are in the favour of the pr oposed placement. Also Belgr ade

(White Town) and Biser ica Alba (Bela Crkva ± White Church) toponymssuggest the colour of the Olympian Gods (white). This placement is alsosustained by the Cor onini toponym (with the hidden name of the Cr onos )

Deliblat area






u. Pillar s of Her acles reflect much subsequentgeogr aphical reality in compar ison with the Atlantis Sea

and can be connected to the area of the actual r ockBabacai, near by Cor onini village






u¶. Pillar s of H

er ac

les

Babacai stone






Atlantis Sea

VinaLepenski Vir

Tr tr ia

Sar misegetusa Regia

Tur da

Her akles

Anina (Ion, the oldest man f r omEur ope) ~ 40,000 year s

AtlantisIsland

Pillars of Heracles

v.The reconsider ationof the archaeologicaldiscover ies f r omneighbor ing areas






w. Sar misegetusa Regia ± the closest sacredarea of antiquity. The Dacian kingdom

(Burebista, Decebal), the closest imper ialpower of the antiquity






x. Nowadays, the Platon¶s

text (Critias) can be brokenup in distinct passages

referring to very different

paleogeographical realities,

repspectively:

1. The Pannonian Lake

before the Moon capture

2. The Europe beyond thislake ( Western Europe ) =

real and whole continent

3. The Atlantis Island

4.Fruka Gora Hill

5. The Atlantis Sea ± the

Relict Pannonian Lake

6. The Middle DanubeDepression

Deliblato villageRelict of Atlantic Sea






ATLANTIS ISLAND IS DISCOVERED

Er onja

The Evenor ¶sMountain



ABSTRACT of the paper ³ Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle DanubeDepression´ by Mircea icleanu, Paul Constantin, Radu Nicolescu

presented at November 10, 2008 (Session 3) of The 2nd International Conference ³ Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land ́ Athens,Greece 2008

The attempts to identify the area that might correspond, undoubtfully, to the

mythic land Atlantis, hadn¶t succeeded so far, as they weren¶t relied on the

paleogeographic reality, very important for The Old World far history. These were

connected to the long maintenance in the present Depression of Middle Danube, thus

within the Pannonian Basin, of an endoreic region in which a huge lacustrian area

survived: The Pannonian Lake. This was definitely isolated from the neighbored basins of the Central Paratethys about 7 m.y. ago and it maintained until prehistoric

time, as an inner sea characterized mainly by the presence of an archipelagos in its

Western part. Only after The Iron Gates Gorge shaping, probably during some

cataclysms which affected the whole Earth, the old lake picture radically changed. In

the South-Eastern part of the Pannonian Basin, a lake maintained for a long time. It

was supplied mostly by the 4 main rivers of the Middle Danube Depression.

The last huge catastrophe that struck this edenic humanity realm, about 11.600

years ago, was due to a meteorites rain that affected Terra, a well described rain from

the biblical text (Apocalypse of John). It was concentrated upon the Western area of

the Atlantic Ocean where a huge vapors mass appeared which turned towards East,

and triggered The Great Flood (or Biblical Deluge) that could be better understoodonly in connection with the Pannonian area paleogeography. The same catastrophe

led to the last paleogeographic picture of the Pannonian Basin, meaning a relict lake

whose shore maintained for a long time at about +100 m height, and existed during

the Early Holocene [icleanu et al., 2006 - The XVIIIth Congress of the Carpathian-

Balkans Geological Association, Belgrade].

Picturing a Pannonian Atlantis might easily solve some location problems,

difficult to be solved so far, and could very well answer the numerous criteria

proposed for a realistic search of this fascinating mythic land. Thus, the West

Pannonian archipelago allowed the finding of an island to which the Atlants capital

could be linked. The Pannonian Lake corresponded to the Atlantes navigable sea,

placed ³beyond´ the ³Pillars of Herakles´, that could be found only within the area of

the Iron Gates gorge, as a few antic authors (i. e. Pindar) or actual ones (i. e.

Densusianu), and as a lot of myths and toponyms connected to the mythic hero

Hercule did. The sudden disappearance of the Pannonian Lake might explain the

appearance of some fine, unconsolided sediments (mud) that isolated for a while the

off-islands of the Pannonian Lake. The moment of the Atlantis ³sunken´ can be

established together with the meteorites rain from about 9.541 B.C. (a much closer

data to the one mentioned by Plato). The Atlantes civilization (which beyond the

archipelago included as well areas from the Pannonian Lake shores, thus the total

area was closed to the one estimated by Plato) developed in a mild climate,

influenced by the Atlantis position in connection to a huge water mass and the

presence of some important hydrothermal resources, known even nowadays inside

the Pannonian Basin (nowadays there could be found the largest thermal lake in the

world ± the Héviz Lake, and about 1500 thermal springs as well).

This civilization was based on the presence of some important natural resources

(forests, salt, gold, silver, copper etc) known even in the present in the Carpathians,

which border the Pannonian Basin in the North, and in the East.

This view might effectively solve not only the Atlantis location problem, but the

connection to real geographic areas of some mythic paleogeographic data for which

no viable solution was found so far, among there could be mentioned Thot Lake and Ha Lake (Egyptian myths), Ginnunga Gap, Audhumbla, Yggdrasil and Asgard

(Scandinavian myths), Cronus Sea (that became ³The Dead Sea´) and Okeanos

(Greek myths), the Life Land and the Death Waters (Sumerian myths), Havila Lands,

Cus Lands, and Asiria (in the Bible), Alybe (= Alybas) Lands (Homer) and Siriat

(Egyptians). The mythic land Vanenheim (= the Land of Vans), whose name is kept

by the actual ³Panonia´ could be distinguished of all. Such point of view was

sustained by us even from 1991 [icleanu et al., XIIth International Congress of the

Prehistoric and Protohistoric Sciences, Bratislava].

The Pannonian Lake (³Atlantis Sea´) and the Atlantis Island disappearance

following some successive catastrophes: floods, earthquakes, tsunami could led to the

disappearance of the main material remains of Atlantis civilization described by Platoand considered by many Atlantologists as very important criteria in searching the

Atlantis.

The population saved after such events kept in memory both the Flood myths,

and the Atlantis disappearance as well. Afterwards, these myths were brought in by

the population spread in those areas. In addition, the old inhabitants of the

Pannnonian space ³exported´ own toponyms of this primordial area in numerous

regions where they settled on, after successive migrations. The relations between the

Atlantes and the old Greeks could be easily explained in connection to the Pannonian

area as well, by the present toponyms with Greek mythic resonance from the North-

West area of the Apuseni (Western) Mountains.

There had to be mentioned the ³trend´ to find a solution for the Atlantis problemaccording to the information, unjustified absoluted many times, offered by Plato in

his writings, in the terms in which extremely precious data were comprised in other

antic authors writings, among which Diodorus Siculus with his ³Biblioteca

Historica´, mainly from the traditions regarding the Amazons.

One should not neglect that from the near close of this area there were some

world priorities: ³The Mesolithic Paradise´ (Lepenski Vir ± 9.000 BP), the oldest

world known writing (Vinca, Tartaria ± about 7.500 BP), the oldest ceramic tubes

network for drinkable water (inside the area of the old Dacian capital from

Sarmizegetusa Regia, in the South Carpathians - about 7.000 BP). In addition there

had to be mentioned the Dacian sanctuary presence from Sarmizegetusa, a proof of a

very developed civilization, placed within the central area already known as ³The Old

Europe´

Mircea ICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)



PROGRAM

November 10, 2008

09:00 Welcome

F YTIKAS M. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE PAPAMARINOPOULOS S. University of Patras GREECE

09:10 The myth of Gaia, from Bronze age to modern scientific era

PAVLIDES S. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE

09:40 - 11:00 Session 1

09:40 Crete Thera Atlantis: Culture and Writing

F ACCHETTI G. Universita Grave dell¶Insubria ITALY

NEGRI M. IULM University, MILAN ITALY

NOTTI E. IULM University MILAN ITALY

10:00 The story of Atlantis and Plato¶s intentions

PARISAKI T. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE

10:20 11500 years ago ?VIENI R. Independent Researcher ITALY

10:40 World maps from the Stone Age? New rock drawings show unbelievable

knowledge of prehistoric cultures

GOERLITZ D. ILZ University Bonn GERMANY

11:20 - 13:20 Session 2

11:20 The strange and undocumented discoveries of Antarctica and South America

WEIHAUPT J. University of Colorado UNITED STATES

PAPAMARINOPOULOS S. University of Patras GREECE

11:40 Atlantis¶ position, shape and dimensions

SARANTITIS G. Independent Researcher GREECE

12:00 New palaeobotanical and paleoclimatical data from the fossil Quaternary flora inthe caldera walls of the Santorini island

VELITZELOS E. University of Athens GREECE

12:20 Skepticism on the geomorphological and archaeoseismological evolution of Troy

plain and fault, based on new field data

PAVLIDES S. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE

CHATZIPETROS A. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE

MICHAILIDOU A. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE

SBORAS S. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE

SYRIDES G. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE

VALKANIOTIS S. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE

VOUVALIDIS K. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE

ZERVOPOULOU A. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE

TUTKUN S.Z. Onsekiz Mart University TURKEY

ULUGERGELI E. Onsekiz Mart University TURKEY

KUUMLRCER A. Onsekiz Mart University TURKEY

EKINCI Y.L. Onsekiz Mart University TURKEY

November 10, 2008

11:20 - 13:20 Session 2

12:40 Copper and tin-bronze in the Bronze and Iron Ages in the Western

Mediterranean: The Iberian Peninsula

ROVIRA S. Museo Arqueologico Nacional SPAIN

13:00 An active Greek Bronze age trading centre in SE Sweden

MORNER N.A. Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics SWEDEN

LIND H. Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics SWEDEN

14:40 - 16:20 Session 3

14:40 Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to

Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression

TICLEANU M. Geological Institute of Romania ROMANIA

CONSTANTIN P. Independent Researcher ROMANIA

NICOLESCU R. Geological Institute of Romania ROMANIA

15:00 Atlantis in South Spain - a realistic hypothesis

WICKBOLDT W. Independent Researcher GERMANY

15:20 Atlantis, the last heir of an old legacy

RODRIGUEZ SANCHEZ J.J. Ayuntamiento de Madrid SPAIN

15:40 The Achaeans¶ coming to Lamos¶ kingdom in the Atlantic Ocean


16:00 Flooding of the North Evia Gulf pre-historic lake and a possible

meteorite impact in Late Pleistocene Early Holocene

SAKELLARIOU D. Hellenic Centre of Marine Research GREECE

16:50 - 18:30 Session 4:

16:50 Atlantis: Lost Kingdom of the Andes

ALLEN J. Independent Researcher UNITED KINGDOM

17:10 Atlantis in Hispaniola: further discussion

SPEDICATO E. University of Bergamo ITALY

17:30 Examining the relationship between Ogygia island and Atlantis

GEORGIANNIS V. Technological Education Institute of Piraeus GREECE

17:50 Atlantis in Middle America

TEELUCK J. Independent Researcher CANADA

18:10 Rethinking Atlantis: Three events that shaped the legend

KONTARATOS A. Independent Researcher GREECE




November 11, 2008

09:00 - 11:00 Session 5

09:00 A focus on the geologic sciences related to Atlantis-Bakhu: Can a

paradigm shift solve the mystery?

WELLS G. Wells Research UNITED STATES

09:20 Plato¶s Atlantis story is his humorous legacy in the form of an ironical

brainteaserSCHWEITZER E. Independent Researcher GERMANY

09:40 Testing Plato¶s statement of prehistoric catastrophes in Greece, at

Rharion field and in the Eleusis gulf

STAMOU A. Eleusinan Studies Center ³Daira´ GREECE

10:00 The four main questions of the great logical myth of Atlantis

MITROPETROU E. University of Patras GREECE

10:20 Denudation of Atlantis and its resemblance to the mythology of

Dwarka - a geomythological analysis

KOAK Y. Hinchingrook Hospital UNITED KINGDOM

10:40 Circumstantial Evidence for Plato¶s Island Atlantis in the Souss-

Massa-Draa Region of today¶s South Morocco HUEBNER M. Independent Researcher GERMANY

11:20 - 13:20 Session 6

11:20 Plato¶s ³atlantida nesos´ as the island of Meroe

GHEMBAZA T. Independent Researcher F RANCE

11:40 The truth status of Plato¶s Atlantic tale

BERGMAN J. Independent Researcher SWEDEN

12:00 Evidence for a Large Neolithic Settlement in a Caldera-Like

Geomorphologic Structure in South-West Morocco

HUEBNER M. Independent Researcher GERMANY

HUEBNER S. Independent Researcher GERMANY

12:20 The constitutional and economic structure of Atlantis BALOGLOU C. Hellenic Telecommunications Organization S.A. GREECE

12:40 Plato¶s justification to call the Atlantic panpelagos and not ocean


COSSEYAN C. School Advisor GREECE

13:00 That¶s why Atlantis must be located within Mediterranean Sea

MONTE L. Indipendent Researcher ITALY

14:40 - 16:00 Session 7

14:40 Modeling of tsunami generated during the Minoan eruption of Thera

and evaluation of nearshore wave amplitudes and run-up along coastal

areas of the southern Aegean Sea.

McCOY F . University of Hawaii GREECE NOVIKOVA T. National Observatory of Athens GREECE

PAPADOPOULOS G. National Observatory of Athens GREECE


15:00 The search for lost Atlantis in the marine region westwards of Santorini

island- Program Atlantis 2003 - Preliminary results

MITROUSIS A. Hellenic Center for Marine Research GREECE

15:20 King Italos = King Atlas of Atlantis?

F RANKE T. Independent Researcher GERMANY

15:40 Minoan tsunami deposits on the coast of Crete and their relation to the

Santorini eruption

SIGURDSSON H. University of Rhode Island UNITED STATES

CAREY S. University of Rhode Island UNITED STATES

ALEXOPOULOS G. Third Ephorate of Antiquities GREECE

VAKIRTZI S. Akrotiri Archeological Institute GREECE

VOUGIOUKALAKIS G. Institute of Geology and Mineral Exploration GREECE

November 11, 2008

16:00 - 16:40 Session 8: Posters

01. A hidden calendar in the Atlantis story

PLIAKOS A. Pliakou Language Schools GREECE

02. A new map for the lost Atlantis - The sinking of Atlantis happened, at least, in

two destructions

PASCHOS T. Independent Researcher GREECE

03. Archaeoastronomy, and the Proto-Greek pre-cartographic knowledge of the

world

GREGORY G. International Centre for Earth Sciences ITALY


GREGORY L. International Centre for Earth Sciences ITALY

04. Archaeological excavations at Indus valley sites correlate with description of

Atlantis continent and Atlantis city

KOAK Y. Hinchingrook Hospital UNITED KINGDOM 05. Are medieval planispheres representing late Pleistocene Antarctica?

BARBIERO F . Independed Researcher ITALY

06. Aristotle?s notes regarding the location of Erytheia- a second look at the Myth

KATSAROS T. University of Aegean GREECE


COSSEYAN C. School Advisor GREECE

07. Atlantis in Antarctica

BARBIERO F . Independed Researcher ITALY

08. Atlantis mythology and it¶s correlation to Vedic mythology





09. Atlantis on Lesvos, Greece

ANAGNOSTOPOULOS P. Independent Researcher GREECE

10. Crop and shamanic plants on both sides of the Atlantic support the theory

of an ancient trans-Atlantic exchange

GOERLITZ D. ILZ University Bonn GERMANY 11. Evidence of presentation

of Dholavira site - matching the criterias laid down by the Atlantis Hypothesis:

searching for a lost land conference 2005 KOAK Y. Hinchingrook Hospital UNITED KINGDOM

12. First Images of mythic Atlantis from satellites

COSCI M. Independent Researcher ITALY

13. Heracles¶ Pillars


14. Land and marine calendrical systems of prehiostoric Crete.

REGORIADES P. Independent Researcher GREECE

15. Neolithic and Early Bronze Age technological innovations

BASSIAKOS Y. NCSR Demokritos GREECE

16. Nicotine and cocaine in man made and nature made Egyptian mummies

PAPAMARINOPOULOS S. University of Patras GREECE 17. Odysseus¶ transatlantic ³imaginary´ craft

SIDERIS M. Independent Reasearcher GREECE

18. On the reversal of earth rotation axis

SPEDICATO E. University of Bergamo ITALY

19. Post Atlantis migration of people to Europe - Is evidence of migration of

Indus people indicative of migration to Europe


20. Testing Plato¶s geomorphological statements of Achean¶s country land

CHALARI A. University of Patras GREECE


F ERENTINOS S. University of Patras GREECE GEGARA M. University of Patras GREECE

PAPATHEODOROU G. Univeristy of Patras GREECE

21. The Achaeans coming in Africa and the island of Pharos

CHALARI A. University of Patras GREECE


PAPATHEODOROU G. Univeristy of Patras GREECE

F ERENTINOS S. University of Patras GREECE

22. The Atlantis research charter. A defined position in the colourful world of

Atlantis research


HO F MANN U. Independent Researcher GERMANY

SCHOPPE C. Independent Researcher GERMANY

SCHOPPE S. Independent Researcher GERMANY

23. The Egyptian origin of Plato¶s Atlantic tale

BERGMAN J. Independent Researcher SWEDEN

24. The Plato¶s unfinished trilogy (Timaeus, Critias, Hermocrates), mythological

traditions and archaeological data. A cross-curricular approach.

TSAKOPOULOS F . Panteion University of Social & Political Sciences of Athens

GREECE

25. The Sekmet-Phaeton catastrophe, in 1300 B.C.

COMBES M.A. Independed Rerearher F RANCE

26. The Thera Volcano at the Transition between the Cycladic Thrustbelt and the

Streched Continental Crust of the Cretan Sea

PAPOULIA J. Hellenic Centre for Marine Research GREECE

MAKRIS J. University of Hamburg & GeoPro GmbH GREECE

27. The coastal cross-flow Cephalonia¶s paradox: A lost Atlantic attractor?

STERGIOPOULOS V. The School of Pedagogical and Technological Ed. GREECE

STERGIOPOULOU A. The School of Pedagogical and Technological Ed.GREECE

STERGIOPOULOS G. The School of Pedagogical and Technological Ed.GREECE

28. The descriptions of TIMAIOS and KRITIAS, from the point of view of a

researcher and not a Reader.


29. The event 10,000 years ago

COMBES M.A. Independed Rerearher F RANCE

30. The importance of Herodotus¶ Histories for the Atlantis problem


31. The mythical Thule to be located in Iceland?

GIANAZZA G. Independent Researcher ITALY

STUCCHI M. Istituto Nazionale di Geofisica e Vulcan ITALY

32. The true dimensions of Libya, Asia and Atlantis


33. Topographical analysis of Atlantis description correlates with South Asian

location


34. Where was Plato¶s Atlantic Sea located? - Comparism of different mythological

traditions

BREMER D. Independent Researcher GERMANY

16:40 - 18:00 Session 9 - Closing Remarks

KONTARATOS A. Independent Researcher GREECE


atlantida din marea atlantica din panonia ante diluviana insula atlantidei din voivodina

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