charles colson

8/13/2019 Charles Colson

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Mcc t :ing w i::h C h Colson o n J r y 13. 1975

1 97 5 Se na t o r W ~ i c k c and I met with char l es W Col

o f f i c e o f the U.s . · Ma r shn1 l in the Fc c1e r a l. cour t Ho use . Washing

Mr. Col son was accompaOied by h i s a t t o rn c y,('Kc nncth ~ d ~ fo ~ t c i n , Sha p i ro& Mo r i n . ]

LW c x p d th<Jt h e wa s in t c rc s to d in ce r t a i n ;ts pec t s o f t he CJ.A

its op c> r a t i o n s . Colson (CC ) r ep l i ed th il t he h ild ea r l i e r appc J''i\c d be fo

N e d ~ i conuni t tee to c1i ucuss h i s k n o w ~ d g e o f CIA a c t i v i t i e s e s u m a b ~ y. -

v i s - a - v i , s ; E l ~ : : > b r g / W a f 7 c r g a t e l . CC i n d i ca t e d t h a t he h a d ea r l i e r de c l i

to a p p 0 a r bccilnsc h e h d n ot h cc n . s 0 ntcm c c d , b u t r c l ( nt:cd wh en pre s s e d

N e d ~ i to appe a r . CC i n d i c a t ed h i s app ea r a nc e l as t e d :1bo u t an h o u r a n d

,.-...

t h a t a s soon as he began s idcu s s ing subs t a n t i v e i nc iden t s o f CIA a c t i v._....

Nedzi ad journed the meet ing . CC be l i ev e s N e d i s c l e a r l y in t he CIA

ppcket . ·(He a l s o fee l s t h a t w h i l ~ e n n i : J . _ _ no t in t he C T A y o c k ; ; ; J

is u n w i t t i n g l y b e in:§ duped . )

/ f ~

cc i nd i cp t ed t h a t he was concerned ove r CIA r e l a t i o n s h i p s and inf

t a i n s an overseas o f f i c e whth one me mber a fu l l - t i me CIA t ype .

_ _Mullen& Co (Washington PR f i rm headed fo rmer ly by . Rober t Benne t

was on r e t a i n e r t o Howard a g h e ~ ope ra t ion . which has d e f i n i t e

._., Chr ·t: YL>

ties. B e n n e t t ~ s f t rm re p l a c e d M e b ~ ~ kwRe when Maheau was f i r e

Maheau a l s o had CIA t i e s .

_ H u g h e s i s i n t o • ; lamar Ente rp r i s e s which . i s engaged in ocean f l o

exp l o ra t i on . The company's s h ip was f inanced and b u i l t by t h e



,Howa,rd Hunt

•CC s t a t e d t h a t Hunt was one o f s i x n ilmefi he gave to Ha l d eman. cc

p i c k e d Hunt b ecau se o f h i s knowledge o f -f o r e ig n a f f a i r s and po l itic a l

a s t u t e n e s s . Hunt wa s work ing fo r Mullen&Co b u t cc was unawa r e o f t h e c

pany 1 s ties w i t h t he CIA. cc s t a t e d t h a t Bob Bennett had bee n a ro u n d f

s e v e r ~ l months o f f e r i n g a s s i s ta nce to t h e Whit e House a nd pu s hing Hunt

Colson and t h a t wh cm · C o l so n wa s l oo k i ng f o r s o me o n e , Hun t s n ame .n a t u r a

~ e to ... mind :; . Co l son .f u r t h e r s t a te d ··; t h a t Hunt h ad · e r u i t e d t h e C u b a n si.o £ ·1971; , which wa s fo u r mo n th s b e fo r e . Co lso n brmjgh t Hunt o n - b o a r

Colson :-.s t a t e d t h a t :_Hunt :.wa:s:., re c e i v i n g : a s s i s t a n c e c f rom ·-a nd ·:· d ea-l i n g

h e .-c i A up ·.to .-. th e e a y o f i t h e W a : t e r g a t e . n d ~ ~ r l ea s t ; .

-d1.d n o t tell ' t h e t ruyh :·. Also;; . · o ·· . o ccas io n s

·packages f r o m . r ;unt which h e t hen p as s e d ·o n t o ·Ri c h a rd He lms.-.

. .

;·.i n d i c a t e d he d i d n o t know th e con te n t s o f ·th e pa c kag es • . Co l s o n

; t h a t :.on · ·one ·· o c c a s i o n Hun t t o l d him '.t h a t . h i s f i n a n c i a l : p ro b lems

s o l v e d ' in · ·t h a t · He lm s .: h a d :::igh7en ·· hirin .$20;'000' :to · ··t a ke ·-ca r e ·. o f ·m e d i c a l

fo r . h i s :s i c k a : u g h t e r : . I H u n t a l s o t o l a =·c o l s o n ·t h a t . Helms was .a g

• .

C o l s o n :s p ecu l a t ed :: t h a t Hunt ·:may have :·b e en se rv i n g :. two . m a s t e r s · when

b r e a k - i n o c c u r r e d . Colson a nd Dean had qu e ri e d Magruder a s to

hy , _S p e n c e r O l i v e r Jr. s phone had . been . t apped .a s w e l L a s O B r ie n s • . M

:an sw ered . t h a t h e ·d i d n o t · know why i nasmuch · a s O l m v e r p p o n e was

o t : t h t F t a r g e t :.o f i t h e b u g g ~ n g o p e r a t i o n : : Colson :: t hen · :r a i s e d : : t h e -f a c t . t

. O l i v e r : Senior.:-was ·:on ..t h e _ Hughes p a y r o l l and :-t h a t ··when Maheau wa

J . . ~ 1 . ~ · H ~ h c . s0 1 Brien• s f f i rm ·lost ' i t s J - r e t a i n e r ·: to ··:Mul l en&Company ( ? . Accord in



-

~ a ~ e Three

•C olson s t a te d t h a t h e had come a c ros s Con e in t h ro b g h Howar d K

o f ABC . Co ne i n • s n <tme h ad n o t sur< j<lc r·d in t he c o u r s e o f th e Pen tag

ra f f a i a . Smith h a d ca ll e d Colso n reg a rd ing t h e P e n tag o n Pape rs an

t a i n "mis s ing c a b l r.s. S m i th h a d d ~ d Co n e in who h a d b e e n t h

c h i e f _o p e r a t i v e in Sa igon d u r in g t he Di e m co up . Wh e n B i l l G i l l o f

was ab o u t to i n t e r v i e w Cone i n , he ( G il l) g o t a c a l l from Henry Kis

who t o l d him _ o s t ay a w a ~ r o m Co n e i n a s he -wa s invo l ve d in @'fi\tters

n a t i o n a l s e c u r ~ t ~ - ~ m i t h ca lled C o l s e n to f i n d o u t what was g o i n g

Co l s o n t o l a E h r l i c hma n a b o u t it, wh o in t u rn t.o l d Col s o n to huve H

·. vr · c.d- r\ . . . ; 1 t ~ • r t J:-,·nL :J;.. .tl

Hunt -foun d ConeinAin a McLe

... . - - . - - -

....... - . : . ·.·, : -- - .

V i r g i n i a s h o p p ~ ~ g _ £ e _ j f t e . s , ~ f : o : r e : : : : : e o n ~ ~ ± v e . n = - - $ 5 0 0 c_ , . _.... ...___

. - . - - · -

p-lafle t i .clcet b ~ · t h o C IA . - Hun t ·i n t e r v i ew e d Cone in i n Ehr lichman • s o

a f t e r t h e S e c ~ ~ ; ~ ~ : : i c e · had -- i n s t a l l e d a t a pe re c o rd e r under a co uc

Bunt knew t h a- --· = :

e i n was a h e a ~ ~ t t f t k ~ r a nq ..:_co.l son h a d h a d h i s s e c r e t a r y o b t a i n a b

o f sc o t c h f o r l i l i r n e e t i n g _ = = = - = - . . : . W ± t h t h e t a pe r e c o t d e r i n s t a l l e d , . . . H ~ t- -

h av e t o w o r r y ~ a b o ~ t t a k i n g __n o t e s o r-- :w; -·.::: . :_ ==

A p p a ra n t l y o o t . f i - : G a n e . : t ~ an d Hunt g o t: - = : - : : - - ; . . ;

how much .. l i qu o r he

hp r e t t y w e l l s m a ~ e d

h ims e l f p u t

an d Co n e i n t

at l e n g t h i ~ d e , t h ~ __ ~ ¥ = P I O O b l m was t h a t Hunt was sitting o n

w h ere t h e t a p ~ ~ e c o f a e r w a s p l a c e d so t h e machine d i d n o t w o rk . · A

i n t e rv i e w w h e n t f f i l ~ ~ a s d i s co v 2 r ed , C olson s a i d he poured b l a c k c o

- ~down ~ u n t to · N b ~ ~ m - . : - a n d = i : h e n t r i e d t o r e c o n s t r u c t w h a t Co n e i n

. 1 W Y ~ ~ _ . . ; . ~ - . .

s a i d . They ~ ~ ~ . r e c o n s - t ; u c t e v e ry t h i n g ;· which .prompted t h e ph·- ..

by Hunt and c 6 f ~ Q . 1 u s i n g __ h e · ne R Fred Char l e s ) t h e f o l l o w in g da~ ~ : . ~ - - = - ~

(; u~

7, 1971 . : : = : = = - - - - = - - - - = ~ = = = = = - =~ ' = - 4 *

l



I

,. - .. r:_ag.e_ .4h

,__,

'•.Hynt c la ims to ha ve shown C one in t h e f o r g e d c a b l e s r e l a t i n g t o

Diem coup . C o l s on d o u b t s t h a t he d i d owJ.ng to t h e f a c t it would hav

fa g a i n s t Co l s o n ' s e 4 p l i c i t i n s t r u c t i o n s . Cone in d en i e s t h a t he e v e r

c a b l e s .

C o l s o n s p e c u l a t e d on Kiss . i .nger ' s t o u c h i n e s s on t h e s u b j e c t o f C

c o n e i n was t h e View Nam s p e c i a l i s t still w i t h t h e CIA. The CIA was

o f C o n e i n i n . t h a t itdid n o t w a n t to t a k e t h e r a p fo r some o f C o n e i n

,--=- ' - ~ - · - - == .

..s _:;:_:< . ; , = : , - : : : ; - ~ce rnJ .ng cone in . ~ ~ i n f ' - o v e r ··to-:-'DEA.- ~ e b e l i e v e x · Conein was s p o n s o r e d

: : : . _ - -------. ;:: -: ;;-;;

r e g a r d by H u n t - : ; · h : : o ~ : , : i a n ' t e d . ' * ~ = k e e p c one in - around · i n · t h e government N H

_ - _ - ' - : : ; : : _ ~ -::. . . . --

i n c a s e more i n f o r m a t ~ o n was n e € d e d . · C o l s o n ' t h o u g h t t h e a r r a n g e m e n t. - --------- .

~ - ~ - 1 I :l i .' -

i n t e r a g e n c ¥ c o o r ~ r n a e f 6 n · ~ e e w ~ D E A & CIA. Krdlgh vias h e a v i l y i n v o l

' -- --· -

i n this a r e a a n ~ 3 f f i a a € = b e v e r a ~ - L±J.ps t o s o u t h e a s t A sia p a i d f o r b y - t h

Kl l i . CIA.-

.·.=-- ' ~. I

Plu mb ers o p e r a ~ ~ ~ ¢ ' 6 r d i l l g = t - o Colson . ) - · Th'" ' · idea was fo r BNDD {no

b e a b l e to . f : i l ' : i : f ; _ ~ - E E ± h e C'tA :S o v e r s e a s in te1. - l igence . : .capabi l i t i e s . - . . 6 ~ ~J.S - engaged i n

. : . . : ; , ~ ~ ~.. Col son · alsa::J:jeXJ.-€,-ves t n a t 01e CIA, through-DEA,

J p r o ) e c t s . "

but · · s a i d he

. . ? : ; ; ~ - - - - ~ = ~He f f i e ~ i : i : N ' i e d <i f:i e·r·s6n· who had "my s t e r i o u s l y d i s a p p e a r e d ,

c u s s " " i t now. (UJGI e,,J ) ftp_--r( J

C o l s o n s t _ ; ~ Beiiile'-a:==Eook o v er Mullen--&- co . a f t e r · t h e 1 9 7- - . : " 1 . . . - : _ - ~ - -

. == : _..,..__.,.___

e l e c t i · o n s b u t - t ~ ~ - - £ ' : ' 1 , e ·:ha-,, s:iJrce left a nd is now wor k ing f o r Howard~ ~c o l s o ~ ' i : d = ' l : : h a t - ~ v e ~ n e

o f Hunt ' s ' : ·caper s wast

B e n n e tughes . : . = : : : = - ~ - ---==- - ~ - . - - .



·. : a . g ~ - 5

I s e n s t Gad p o r t s iirGc t l y

to the

..•...covers· f o r

the agency.

f o r Plan•s.Accordjng t

we s ho u ld t k-· 1 e

Deputy .0 .J

Col sons in c e ·~ f the re ·

c los e look aI sen

ai n t e ii ·

l.gen c e a c t . .

~ s dome s tic

Colson ment ·. loncd th l.VJ.ty

at wh en13

it i s th rou. the p r o s e c u t o r s enn e tt Wen tw r e ~ l f d d

llf n o t topu t in b qu es t i on him.~ t he CIA w1-. .

, • l ch a lAccord ing to s o Pi c k e d

Colson D, ~ ~ t t

· - - lc1 d u(l v ·l

I s e

Waterga te gra

Colson b e l ·lev e s th

up ha l f o £ e f iBenn e tt

1s e ga l f e e s

b G.fore the

1 n b u t w a s ~ • n e e k n w l da - c l ea r e d b y ~ h · ge o t

(\) - ) e CIA 1 0 da .th T ~ . l ~ y.., . a f t e r ---;t

. a t c:x:z-r-ry -- o B . _._

t-he w. a t r g a t e br

~ . 1 1- r1e n go t .

. ..; J.mmuni t y

ll . tb e .-c ia .:: t ypes .drppp c d -.o --E -- ·, .u , o;f _ J . g h t ~

Colson . :sa id :: t ha

In o th e r

- occured..;· - H -- a l ·.... . .

Works, Colson was · s- a y

..Be n n e t t • 5 -· -- :.r e t a · \£.- . 1 n e r t o H ~ h -· -

the --c.ra- At - · g s ..a .- was·· · - - Hl.gh e s • su t n :. .. c o n t r o l l e d c..· gge st - --- ...... f

.t.a,. B e n n e t t .Benn t t p r o v J . d ~ d t b ~ 1

e : proposed ; t H - , a \ o l y ~ r :- f o r ··n i to unt ,_ h a t . Hunt go ·t .

· o D n v e r t · ·• . As · Colson se e s it - o ·J.nt e rwiew

. Benn e tt wa s .N®xxx -· n o t .: m e m o :as . he .was . a b o u t much ··worr i e d ··a b o u t th

c e r t a i n me mos r e l a t i o g to th -· e CIA. ITT -

::t -Colson, .the ·CIA ·· did a number ,ot .ille a l . . • ., g t h . t n g s . t ~ t he Uni ted

. ;Ite d ~ t o f u r t h e r ; tbe : p r v a t e · i n t e r e s t s o f • ITT . i:xx.xke .. ws ~ a s · f o r f o ~ -·. pupposes • . c c l s o n ·.·s a i d ·th a t he cou ld ··n t -· . .

· 0 go- J.nto a r e a s

w e re ..c l a s s i f i e d , e g . - th e :,c h i l e a n ·a f fa ir . and t h e use o f f ed 1·· . e r a a g e n

.-.t o .advance · p r i v a t e i n t e r e s t s where a commonal i ty - o f : i n t e r e s t ·.e x i s t e d

·, ( s a id ) t ha t t h e t h ings theCIA d id dur ing Wate r g a t e were h i g h l y

.and t h a t t ~ e r e were b i t s =and p ie c e s o f them in t h e CIA f i l e ·

t o .·Baker _ and ·Ervin:..· . C o l s o n s t a t e d -3t h a t -.he .·cou ld .probab ly _sununar

o f th e · file a f t e r · e e v i_ewing .·h i s n o t e s ~ . He ·:-d id .;r e c a l l 1 th e . f i l e

. r ad i ca l a c t i v i t i e s p r i o r to . t he c o n v e n t i o n Colson · s a i d t h a t

j



· = ·ag ~ : iS ... ... .- ' *' • 9 ; I § ISS ,;oiisLJ Ih¥r • ~ - . . , ; ~ L ' . '

· · ~ ~ e o C o ~ i t t e e o f 40" w a 3 . . . J l - - - 3 o ~ < " s i nc e K i ~ _ i n g . e . r . _ Y : ' £ _ S _ . . f _ u f D i u . l t - t h e c0..... . ~ ' - ~ ~ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ~s ~ d e d l y . Apparen t ly Kiss inger desp i sed Helms bu t t o l e r a t e d h

pe rha ps , as Colson s p e c u l a t e s , because Helms had something on Kiss ing

·and Nixon. Colson a l s o s a i d he f.;o.d t o l d the pros e c u t o r s abou t Ang le to

t ime ago , b u t . t h a t t hey would no t l i s t e n to him.

IColson s a i d t he r e is ~ a r e a o f C ~ A which p l a c e s CIA types i n t o

all s e n s i t i v e f e de ra l a ge nc i e s . These i n d i v i d u a l s a re not a lways kno

t o t h e a g e n c i e ~ ~ - - . c - ~ S ~ ~ s o n said_ - ~ h i s was d i f ~ e _ : : _ ~ c ~ _ : : - ~ - o m the DEA s i t u a t i· - - - - - - - -

wh ere t h e r e i ~ , . ; : ~ ~ ~ a t e . ent_: .tx in t he CIA work ing on i n t e r n a t i o n a l

. : . - S : i : : ; - : : : . : ~ . : ~ . = _ - : : - - - - - - -. -- ..

c o t i c s t r a f f i c , : : i i : ~ ~ . . i 9 . _ t h a t ~ - o g h would probaThly be R r e l u c t a n t to·--- _ _ - .___ - = - - - - - ~

cuss t h e c i A / D ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ c e ~ , ~ _ l ~ ment ioned J e f f Donfe ld and I ment io-=-=-=--- - . . . l : . . : . . : . . . ;_ •

Walt Minn ick , f i 5 ? t l l : ; _ : q f = ~ h o m __ o _ ; J c _ ~ ~ d for Krogh.)_~ ~ :. ----.- 1 ht p

Colson a l s o . : : § a ~ h a t _ Arnh_r:_ose would :p=ha:XloH probably be tj e u--=-·-____::..:,....;_

would would s e ~ ; , ~ ~ t n e - c i A ~ f _ D E A . He a l s o s a i d t h a t t he r e were c e r -: : : = = - - = . : . . - : ; ; : : : - ~ .. .

t a i n m a f i a f m g t i ~ ( ? - - - ; ; s : \ , l l i f L . h a ( _ l . - _ = x : i : r u d c o r a i a l r e l a t i o n s w i t h Ambrose.

Colson a l s 9 : ~ ~ n e d Pennington who was t he one who buAned McC

f i l e s a f t e r and who d i e d o f a h e a r t a t t a c k s i x months ag

When t h e FBI q ~ e CIA abpu t Pennignto ; : _ t he CIA game t h e FBI

~ · ..· · = = =a n o t h e r P e n n i r t ~ ? ~ u s t h rowing t he FBI o f f o f abou t a yea r . Colson· ~ ~ ~ ; - ~ ..

ment ioned t h e . i [ s t ~ t An_9letqn had had con t ac t wi t h Hunt whi l e Hunt

~ = - ; ; · . ~i n t h e White H ~ ~ ~ -

He s a i ~ - = - ~ ~ t r n s in h i s t e s t imony

and t h a t t h e FBI came t o t he CIA_ ._·.

lll..l UlX n a m e s ~ e c i w o . e t h e CIA had a b e t t e r r e t r i e v a l sys tem.- ~ ~ - - - - ~ - - - - ; ~ ~ - - - - - - .. -· ··- ---

The m e e t ~ ~ began at 2 :00 p.m. , ad jou rned a t 4:15p.m. A. --- -- -····· . .

. - - -·-_ . , ~

- - . - -



j .

-, ·

.- ..-. -

MEMORANDUM FOR THE FILES

FROM PETE KINSEYSUBJECT: INTERVIEW WITH LUCIEN CONEIN

on january 21, 1975, Senator we ick e r and I interviewed Col. L

'one in ~ h o i s curren t ly head of spec ia l operat ions o f the s t r a t eg i. '

i n t e l l igence sec t ion o f the Drug Enforcemen t Adminis tra t ion.

Conein said t ha t he r e t i r ed from the CIA in Ju ly of 1 9 ~ 8 . In

he went to South Vietnam on ~ i s own where he t r i ed to make some m

through ·his connect ions there • . Be ing unsuccessful , he· re turned to

u s ~ . im -' ear ly · 1971: .. He· went · to France · o r s ix weeks ·with ·hl.s -wi f

. -

and ;:5ret\u::ned .:;inr.Apri lJ . 19711 _ In .-·la .te ·71.:.ear ly y 72 ?he _was ·- contactt>d

b y v t b e W 1 f i t e H o u a e regarding : k . n o w l e d g e ·o£1drugs ,- i n s E A s i a ...

J C r o g ~ w a s t h e f i i : s t ::person '.to .:-. a l k to : Conein-.abou t -:. t b i s :=; and ::asked :

d o 0 ~ f i he :-had ·· .the · -respons ib l i ty f ~ 7 1 C o u n t e r a c t : i n g b . . l l l ll reeponse,.

Coned.n- p.llf1QDKXXK prepared ·a · ? J ~ r ·out l in ing h i s ideas w h i c b h e gav

o n another · occas ion; . Krogh -as ked . Conein --- about- how ·to -:go --abou t' I

s e t t i n g u p d r u g i n t e l l i g ence . organiza t : ion .and t h a t : a l t hough t he

W h l ~ e ~ H o u a e W S ge t t i ng . -i npu t s -, f rom Customs ·and B N D D he .·wanted a n

outs ide r to ·tllke a look a t it Conein woote anothe r ·paper s t a t i ng

t ha t t r a f f i ck ing organiza t ions had to be penet ra ted using ba s i c a l l

. S ~t h B J ~ l . a n d e a t i n g e m e a n s w h i c b : - . . h a d g e n e r a l l y b e e n e m p ~ o p ~ d ; _ _ ; b y t h e

/

. . .- .

Abput . the ·t ime . o f · the -r e l ease ,-o f - th e . Penta ·gon Pape rs .; . o n e i n

ae i d · he got · zs ' c a l l from .:..an a:ti IUUI :aqua in tance ; H o w a r d H U ~ t w h o' . , -

a a i d : : h e wanted . cone in to .... come "' to ) th e ·-White -:House ::·to - ta.J.k...·._o h i m ; .



working f o t t h e P r e s i d e n t and t h a t a n y t h i n g th a t was s a id b e twe en the

would b e covered by ex e c u t i ve p r iv i l cq c . Hun t i n t e r v i ewed Co n e i n at

t h e Wh i te House and a s k e d him ab mut E l l sb e r g whom Co n e in h a d worke d

w i t h i n Vietnam. Co ne in t o ld Hunt th a t E l l sb e rg had b ee n h i g h l y

t h o u g h t o f w h i l e in Vie tnam - in f a ct - s o h i g hly t h o u gh t o f t h a t

. . [tJclc - J ~ . j wto . . . J ~ c . m d . ' n t t Jl.Ambass'a d o r P o r t e r had t a k en h ~ m on h1 s sta f f . ht

5f-c:L\ltA. _. .. ~ p c . ~ c ~ c c

1 ~ < : . . en . \\_ 4V1d ~ . . . s - ~ ~Conein s a i d he wa s su rp rise d whe n t h e came r a c r ews a r r i v e d at

h i s h o u se · th e · day ·o f : t h e P e n t a g on Pap ers r e l e a s e . Cone i n s a i d B i l l

Q i l l : o f - ABC handed him · a - copy_ o f t h e NY T ~ m e s a nd .h a d u n d e r l i n e d Co n

n a m e i n t b e n n m e r p u s p _ J . a C e s i t - : . . a p ~ a r e d . Co n e i·fi., t o l d G i l l t h a t . h e .-:

c o a : l d d t a l k t o :·him b e c a u se : o f :.. th e .-· sec u r i t y · a g re eme n t · he ··had .·e n t e r e d

i n t o · w i t h '· t h e c i A w h n h e h a d le.ft : : . Acco r iif i ng · t o c e i n Gill ' t h e n

s a i d t h a t '. he khew -a . s e c u r i t y . man .at : ciA --t h a t · h& -would . :c a l L t o : s e e ·

- i . f ; p e rm i s s i o n -,coo ld b e · g i v e n f o r <Cone i n ···to ··tai·k ..; , Cone i n -- s a i d ·

blsck ·. a w h i l e l a t e r a nd ·t o l d him t h a t · Co n e i n cou ld · n o t · ta . lk ;.. . Co n e i n : .

s a i d : tbst i n · ·those - days - you ' t hought t holy · h e l l J t ~ · wonid fall · on y o u

C o n e i n r·sa i d -:he ·had n e v e r · had a n y c o n t a c t wi th ' K i s s i n g e r -b u t _t b l t t :I

b e h i t d m e t : .... h i s p ~ i n c i p a l a i d s • . He hl td :khown Ha i g f r o m h i . s d a y sVte tnam and r e c a l l e d J o h n -Lehman. s name . He s a i d t - e r e w e r e o t h e r s --

.· b o t ::- h e · ·c o n l d n ' t remembe r their n a mes. Co n e i n s a i d th a t . Hun t had

n o t t t 6 n n dd h.d.m '\ i t.D r. a .. s h o p p ; i n g c - e n t e ~ on ,·,h i s s way o u t o f t b e c o o n t r y • .,.

B u n t h . a d i b e e n , . . r t r y i n g t o ··· c a l l him ·-at '_home · b u t . Cone i i l · ,had ,changed h i sp ~ o n a to.- an ::-.u n l i s t e d .:numbe r ·so . Hu n t··_h a d d i f f i ~ l t y in r e a c h i n g h im .:.: _

.co n e n..- s a i d ;· however,. . t h a t .Hun t : c a l l e d . him a ~ home. c o n e i n ·· s a i d

. -



..... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ~ d• c o n e i n · s a i d he met t he CIA peop le a t t he Bowling a l l e y where he w.

g i v e n : 1ed enve lope . He took th e enve lope home and opened it

f o u n d $ .; :_ . in 2 0 ' s . Conein s a id he la u ghed , threw lhe mo ney in t h

air and ? a i d to h i m s e l f "Whe r e the h e l l ca n I go on $500? wi t h a

wife , t h r e e k i ds , dogs e t c Cone in x s a i d t h a t he c a l l e d t he CIA

s e c u . t i t ~ · man ~ n d t o l d him t h a t he was no t a CIA pa id agent and t h

he was not l eav ing . He wnote a no te return_ing t he $500 to t he CIA

and s i g n e d it Luig i

Dur ing the . t ime t h e whi t e pape r on t h e DIEM. coups wa ·s be ing

· - ·· p}: epared by ·. l \ 1 J 3 C . ~ C o n ~ d n s a i d ·he · was c a l l e d and t o l d t h a t . the T'lhite

House · was·· i n t e r e s t e d =in - cone in · b eing i n t e r v i e w e d ~ Cdnein sa id · tlat

he . c o n t a c t e d : th e . CIA s e c u r i y · ·peop ie ·who · gave pe rmiss ion · fo r _hii iF-t

d6 . th e ·· i n t e rv i e w . Conein · s a i a ·- t h a t ' t h e w n i t e H o u s e w a n t : e d h i m to · ·

s a y who ·· ho_d ·a<. tua1 ly · eng ineered the Diem assas · i na t ion . Conein

sa id ·: that··he ·.Would n o t do it - t h a t1

h i s · i n t e r e s t in t he s t o ry w as 7

what : t h e CIA had rlone to p r e v e n t · t he a s s a s s i n a t i o n . He d id say ··

t h a t ·:: the i n t e r v i e w , . which ·was a i r e d i n D R c o f 1971; . d id no t c o m e o

the · way it 5hould have .

Coneiul .saicL ·t h a t i n J a n u a r y o £ . 1 9 7 2 ~ Krogh c a l l e d him to . th e :: W

House -and ·t :ola: him t h a t : t hey had s o m e o t h e r · work ' · for him •and t h s t ~

would .pay him - fo r it The work i nvo lved w r i t i n g ·. two more papers .-{

r e l a t i n g . t o i n t e r n a t i o n a l drug t r o f f i c k i n g . A f t e r t h a t ··Krogh t o l ~Conr i i l: .t b a t : tney 'cou ld :no l o n g e r ~ keep: X . .him ·at ·the W h i t C H o u s e a n

a a k e d h i . l i r r i f : i ' i ~ w a s i n t e r e s t e d ;i. il '1goin9

- to ··BNDD · c· ·or-.· ustoms . C o n a i i l

e a i ~ h e selec ted BNDD •becaus4 it >was r e l a t e d · t o ·hiro.. &• f i e l d ·o f ·

e x p e r t i s e - I ~ e r s o l l . i n t e rv i ewed ·· cone i n in ·June, . l9 l f ter i b

em m- i n t e lU .cjenc-e . t ook:· Conein ·on- a . . ·~ . s a c o n s u l t a n ~ u n t i l "they. o f f e r e d



£on in ~ a i d h n v r d e n ie d h av in g se en t he ca b l e s fo r ge d b y Hunt

He s a i d t h a t th e r e we r e a s t a c k o f c ab l e s - a ll w i t h Top s ecr e t

c l a s s i f i c a t i o n s . He d i d n t r ea d th e m b e cau se he d i d n o t have a s e c u r

c l e a r a n c e . Conein sa i d he only sa w t he forg e d c ab le much l a t e r a t

a m e e t i n g w i th ' La mbert o f L i fe magazine . La mbert had c a l l e d him and

s a i d t h a t he had a docume n t t h a t he wa n t e d Co n e in t o see . Co n e in me t

him a n d Lamber t showed him t he cab l e . Cone in s a i d whe n he saw it t h a t

if -:-it · were . t r u e , t h a t he (Conein) had b e e n p layed f o r a pa t sy y · ·

Henry_ Cabot Lodge . . Conein s a i d a f t e r . t h a t he went ·home a ·nd on a :

. .

g;-een r: s e e u r e ~ p t l b n e c a l l e d .; Colby·.a t ·_th e · CIA and :. t o ld .·him ·o£ t h e,

cab1.e .:-and ·""i t s .·impl ica t ions : . - .(Colby ·: s a i d h ::had . neve r · e e n c a b ~ ei

e i t h e r ~ Cone in.,.·s a ·id 'th e - cab l e :· s h b w e d c o m p l i c · ·i:.R - o f ' t he ·White -

Hoose - in·. i n s t r u c t i 6 n a ; to L o o 9 ~ t o h a ~ e D 1 e m a s s a s s ina t e d .; . However.;,· .

acco r d in g ·: t o ···cone in ,· Lodge _would have · had ·.to · have.· h e e n :· a wake · a t ~ am

a n d h e knew ·•.t h a t · Lodge neve r g o t ~ up :a t F. · a m • .

ConeiD "sa id ·t ta t · .th e · BNI>D.-CIA agreeme n t was t e rm i n a t e d . ; i n - J u l y o f1973 : .

Conei..n- sai .d he ·: neve r · saw E h r l i c h m a n ~C o n e i n ·-.sacild · t h a t ·aft-e r : Nixon • s ·b ig · meet in g _on •n a rc o t i c s · i n :: 1971, .

t i t .:C:tA : formed a n a r c o t i c s u n i t ·: to :.co o r d ina t e ·i n t e : l l i gence = a c t i v i i e s ~

He . s a i d t h a t · f o r example . t h e CIA in ··Lao s in 1 9 7 l .we r e n o t conce rned

a : D Z ~ l l b b u t d r u g t r a f f i c / . , b u t t ha t wh e n Nix o n e p p e d ~ p e f f o r ~ s

ag l l i n s t - i n t e rnc1 t i6na l t r a f f i c k e r s • . a c t i o n - was r equired . : .- Coorr1inat: ion ·

w a s a l s o r e q q i r e d Krogh : :waa ..; tb e L co o r d in a to r a . t : t h e · White :..: Hoose -2an d :j

cha i red t h e commit tee · r e s p o n s ib l e .- fo r : coord ina t i n g :-agency · e f f o r t s ~ .

At; :_BNDo ·: (and · now D E A ~ coneirl ':worked ·i n s t r a t e g i c i n t e l l i g en ce -- .

. .H .• '·f i rE : t :. jo b· w a s t o s t ~ r t a s s e m b l . i n g .. th e ·: n ecees a r'y i n fo rma t ion ··



..- ·

the DEA man e s t a b l i s he d t h e o rx> r<1ti o n u nd wlH n th e ho s t coun t ry app r. :

he g o e i in -coun t ry and works wi th the hos t c o u n t r y s a u t h o r i t i e s .

Cone in s a id t h a t t h i s may i nvo lve r ec ru i t ing i n - co u n t r y n a t i o n a l s

and supp ly ing . and t r a i n i n g them in the u s e o f e le c t r o n i c bugging

and camera equipment . Co ne in sa id t h a t h e h ~ s t h r e e men on h i s staff

and 14 i n d i v i d u a l s in v a r io u s s t age s o f t r a i n i n g .

When Weicker showed Cone in the BR Fox ca t a lo g u e o f a s s a s s i n a t i o n

equipment; . Cone in s a i d ••ves sir . • • boy t h i s is someth ing ·: . • •

T t i 1 5 1 J l r ? l g ~ y Mitch = i s one . ·o f : t h e ··c r a z i e s t · SOD' s ::I. ve ever:-m.et:t

COoei.nt :sa i d j tm .t: i·a b o u t La :.:: yeac :.. ago ..;he ..:was ·. l 0ok ing · fo r some - s p ec i a l l z e d

5 6 c y ~ l ~ ..bllgging :; d e v i c e s :.fo r : u se :... s:f .:oversea S; He ·-· sa id : t h a t .Mike ..:

M o r r i s s e y y o f B ~ r u o .Fox -: made . s n c b e ~ i p n e n t ; ; He .· a a <.: sa i d :' t h a t r-wheo:-:

M o r r i s s e y ~ w a s d e m o n s t r a t i n g th e ···bugging . w equ ipment h a l s o -b r o u g n t 1.5 sa.ss ,..,d•c •"ll >

i n ~ o m e H t a i e ~ ~ d ~ v i c e s Conein ·· s a i d -he ·didn • t : b'uy any ·- - t h a t ; he ·

w o u l a n . . t ~ - o w n a o n e • . Conein s a i d he · d i d n o t know Barbar l i :· Fox .·S p i n d e l t.

and c o o l a n o t r e c a l l e v e r ~ h e a r i n g ·o f . B e rn i e S p i n d e l ~

Weicker:.. s a i d ~ t h a t · from r ead in g th e - co v e r memo; it ' sounded 'l l k e .:;e

M o r r i s a e y m a k i n g t h e equiproent- e sp e c i a 1 l y . f o r Conein . Conein. -

eaici .. b a t : ~ . . w a a ; : : n Q t t r u e a n d ..• t h a t _:he ::would .:go ::..; u n d er r oath: . C o n e i n ~ : s a i d ..

t h a t L· h e :"'hits ·. never : had ·: t h i s =t yp =o e q u ip ment . Cone in s a i d h e -n e v e r ·

a b a w e d : a n yi n t e r e s t : in the ASTRO like . o f equ ipment .

c o n e i i l n s a i d ~ t . h a t : . : i n · Ap =-il o r M a Y 1974 : e o : ~ ; d e r e d " b u g g i n g e q a i p m e n t

f rom ,.BJlii.Fox fo r u s e ~ : . o v e r s ea s - . T h e e q Q i ~ n t : . . i n c l u d e d ~ 3 o n l i n e 2 t e l ep p o n. ;·. 'f.'· .

b i l g g , . n q - d e v i e o e s ( J t e l e p h o n e b u g g ~ n g d e v i c e s and 3 - rece iVE rs . - He ..

a a i d ··h e ·. s t i l l ~ h a d t : h e e q u i p m e n t ali-ce·... s i n c e ':·it :_had .b e e n d e c i d e d n o t · _- . '

t o u s e ~ i t ~ .Cooe in r·sa id . t h a t ..he ·fitst ·. me t M o r r i s s e y i i l " l973 A t the t i m e



·. .. . .

Conein sa id h met Morr i s sey a t o t a l o f fou r o r f i ve t imes . He s a i d

t h a t DEA o rde red t h e bugging equipment from him bu t t h a t he was no t

very ' e l i ab le b e c a u ~ ; e he d i d not dc l ' i v c r o n s ch0 du l e .

Conxein sa i d t h a t he and Mitch Werbel l had been in t h e OSS

t oge the r in Cmina. He s a i d t h a t Werbel was an armaments manufac tu

and t h a t he had been t o Werbe l l ' s p l a n t ou t s i de Atlan ta on two occa

Be s a i d t h a t Werbel was a b i g whee l e r -d e ie r and t h a t k on one

occa s i on had wanted m Conein to go to London . f o r .him . to . a r r ange .:-

p ~ r ~ b a s e o f s c r a p . from · ~ o u t h v i e t n a m ~ Cone in ·· s a i d . t h a t W e r b e l l p a sac. fantas t ico: :weapona·. co l l e c t i on ··. i n c lud ing t housands ._o f .: s i l e n c e r s :: fo r

mach n ~ guns ; .

Conein :-s a i d t h a t - a t th e - e m o n s t r a t i o n M o r r i s s e y d e m o n s t r a t e dtl:l i= bi.lgg ng _: eqq.ip{llent, , but : ano the r m n d e m o n s t r a t e d ~ t h e assas s ina t io

d e v i c e s ~ Coaein -- seicL-t ha t -over · the years . lo t s : o f . peop;t.e .. a v e s h o w n

h l . m . ~ l o t a l1evicea · o ~ · t h i s · so r t ; .bu t he r c ma rked t h a t ·. he wee · i n t r i g

w t t b e e e d e v i c e e b eca.use .·they were t r i gge r ed ·e l ec t ron i c8117" in s t e

o t chemical ly . ; Cooein=remarked:.:tbat a l o t o ~ :·people .t h i nk : .t h a t '. onc

I I

yoa ·= have - beea. ·iD th e · CIA · y o u ' r e al111eye :· in th e ·:CIA.

Conet.n.;to ld ·.JSenator_Wei.cker t ha t ·.he - should . a s k ~ o r : an -:FBI ::.

i n v e s t ~ g ~ t i o n and. t h a t he woald -lvo lun t n r i l y : t nke c a 1pplygrspb . t e s t ; .

T h e e o n 1 y ~ c o r r e s p o n d e n c e Conein s a id he had w i t h M o r r i s s e y t h a t h e

coold: i recal l . : was . e : l e t t e r o ~ con f i rma t ion under .· ti 1e -: I l l l o f ' :t 'tb e :

w i r e t i l p s t a t u t e t h a t t h e e q q i p ~ e n t (l$ugging) w o u l d h e u e e c t o r ~ l e v .-

. _ n t ' o r c e m e a t t p ~ r p o e e s ; . Conel r r.d id-.:not '· know ·wtiY S o m e o n e w o a l c 1 ; t - r l t os e 1 . ~ 1 . h 1 . m s a s ae s i na t i on·,equ1pment , , He · d ..: sa1li t h a t t he r e · were·-a ·.. l o t :

. . .o t f p ~ o p ~ e w h o ·t hough t . he -waa -:; more·:: invol e d inTth;i.ngs t th e < >CIA .:. than

· ··



a r t E r .tbe demonstra t ion t ha t i r organized cr ime ever got any o t ha....

equipment they wo uld hgve a f i e ld da y . Co nci n sAid tha t anothe r ma

from his o f f i c e by t he n ame ea r l e ("Bud") Frank ~ a s with him

a t t he t ime or the demonst ra t ion.

I ca l l ed Frank a t his of f i ce a t DEA and nsked him i he woul

come j o i n us in the meeting. Mr. Frank a r r ived and discussed h i s

versmon t the meeting with Morr issey , which e s s e n t i a l l y confirmeO

what -Conein had t o ld us . Frank sa id .the e quipment w a s d e m o n s t r a t e d

a n o f f i c e o n Connec t icut avenue outs ide o f DEA h e a d q u a r t e r s ~ •

P i ' a n k - _ s a l c l · h e t o ~ k . a n a c a d e m i c : i n t e r e s t in .ctb e :... assaas i na t i on e q u i p ~ ebecanae r;:he h a d never · ·seen· such • q u i p m e n t be(o rec . F r ~ m k . f e e i s t h a t

M a r r i s s e ~ : : m a y h a v e d e m o n s t r a t e d t h e A S T R O e q n i p m e n t · s w e y t '

t e s t i n g ; tbe : : waters o r e x p r e s s i n g : : ; - p ~ o r e s s 1 6 n a l p ~ i d e . ; . F r s n k s a i ~ : : l

tb e :::meeting _ l a s t ed .about an .hour .·and ·.a ·· half-. - · P r a n k . h a d n o r e c o l l e c t

oC:Morr issey s i t ~ g t h a t h e h a d s b l d t h e assass ina t1on .equipment ; to · a

o the r :·f ede ra l - agency.- . F r a n k . s a i ~ h e had t h e . feel ing- t h a t : Morr i ssey •

t i . ~ : w a s .swi h a n o t h e r :··arm no f t h e g o v e r n m e n t : .

• • Frank ·s a i d ,t ha t , DEA ·-had ·-n e v e r · a p p r o v e d t h e · · A S T R O e q n i p m e n to r r 1 t s 3 a p p i c a t i o n ~ H e s a i d i t ~ a s r a i s e d i ~ i r i t o r m a l : d i s c u s s i o n s ~

a m o n g ~ t b e c a g e n t s , but t h e s u p e r 1 o r s s a 1 < 1 t h a t in ·mo · i n s t a n c e ~ w o a l d · :

sacb.--eqoipment ever : be . used..-_ He ·sait1 .t h a t · ae a · r e s u l t o r . recent ·

S a p ~ e m e C o u r t · dec is ions · regard - ng --wi re tapping; . it ; w s · 'decided · t h a t

t b e o b b . g g ~ ~ ~ ; : _ e q u i p m e n t : . . they yhad .. n r c h a a e d f r o m ..Morriaseyyconld r.no t t

bbeuseddoverseaa;.

At t.Seoator W e i c k e r ~ :- sugges t t oo ; . Cone in · pl.itced:-:s ;:. ca l l .: to

l e t ttworddt orTM orr isseJytoocalllh .m-;: . C ~ o e t m . s a i d h e w o a l c ' b e i t be r r



.._ · '

· · ·MEMOAANDUM FOR THE FILES. FROM: PETE KINSEY

~ SUBJECT: INTERVIEW WITH MICHAEL MORRISSEY ... .

.On January 22 197?., I met w1 th Mt c h::w l Morri s se y in his offic-e

a t the law f i rm & 6c:i sc r , : ;ui tc 850 _ Wa te r ga te 600 , Washing

n • c••

·Mr. Morr iss ey began by sayin g th a t he had be e n invo lve d in the B.R

,Fox company a s a me ans o f prov:Ldinc; i n come whi l e he wns a t tend in g law

schoo l . Mo r r i s sey s a i d tha t he had known Dcrni e Spinde l from the ·: ·

e a r l y s i x t i e s a nd a f t e r h i s ueath in Februa ry 1971, he and Spi n d e l s

wife - . Barbara Fox Spindel : decided to ·contJ.n ue the bus-iness as e qu

p a r tn e r s . Morrissey sa id t ha t B .F . Fox we n t o u t o f e x i s t ence in

November o f 197h . In Apri l o f 197lf., Barbara Fox Spinde l had t aken a

f u l l t ime job at s a secretaJ 'Y a t the Na tion a l Commiss ion on Wate r .. .

e ·-·Q ua l i t y . Morri s s e y sa i d t :1 t hc h ad a dg r c e in e l ec t ric;a1 enginee i n

I .

bu t t h a t h e ha s chosen law as h i s proLc s s i on over e ng in ee r in g . . .

Morr is sey sa id tha t around. May o 19'(3 , he broue;ltt a b e l t t r a n s to

mi t t e r f ~ r the Departme n t o f Jus t :L ce fo r h m to look a t . He r e c a l l e

t h a t Lucien Cone in was on e r t he i n d iv idua l s who would be lo ok ing a t

the equ ipmen t . He sa id t ha t he knew tha t Cone in was a high o f f i c i a l

\ ·. /

in t h ~ ·Jus t i c e De p a r tmen t s Drug Enforcement Admin i s t r a t ion .

He sa id tha t some t ime a f t e r tha t Mitch WP.rbcll who a t t ha t t ime

had an o f f i c e on Connect icu t Ave . con tac ted h i m and s a id t ha t h e ·had

a f r i e n d who was i n t e res t ed in see ing e l e c t r on i c bugging equ ipment .

Morrissey s a id t ha t he wen t ove r t o Morriss ey s of f i ce whe r e he gave

a demnonstra t i on o f the b uggi n c; e qu ipmun t to Cone in a nd ano ther man

who was with him, . When I asked him if he d emonst ra ted any o f the .

equipment in the Ast ra c a t a loc;ue , he sa i d he imagin e d he d ld . I

asked him why he th o ught Conein would be in te r es t e d in such equipment

and he r e p l ied t ha t Cone in was a high J u s t i ce Depar tmen t o f f i c i a l

and he wante d to show him a l o t o f th ings to demons t r a t e his capab l i t

Morr i s s ey sa id t h a t he na th ought tha t Er i c Sp lndel_, Barbara S p i n d



·

. \

~ o r r i s s e y sa i d t h a t he knew tha t Werbel was in the armaments

~ u s i n e s s and t ha t hn had had the Connect icu t uvcneue of f i c e for on ly

a few months, from which he was tr-ying to s e l l c e r t a i n e l ec t ron i c

scanning device ·s . e sa i d t ha t WerlJ l never showed a n ~ l y i n t e r e s t ,

in the A st ra equiprncmt. e a l so s a id t lmt Conein sho11cd no i n t e r e s t

in the a s s a s s i n a t i o n equipment a t the demons tra t ion . Hhen I pressed .

him a s . t o why, I f Conein had no in tP . rcs t , he wrote in the cover memo:

to Werbe l l t h a t the Ast ro equipment l i ne was developed only a f t e r

working wi th Conein, Morr i ssey s a id t ha t al though Conein s·howed

no i n t e r e s t a t the demonst ra t ion , he r u ~ 1 1 x ~ l X n t l : t was no t sure Conein.

was d i s i n t e r e s t e d . tn o the r ' llOrds, Morric>s y Sfl.Ld tha t he did no t :

i n t e r p r e t conein 1 s l a c k o f i n t e r e s t as necessa r i l y be ing a dead end ...

. -

. ....

Morr issey s a id tha t he had no t con tac ted any o the r agencies in

an e f f o r t to market the a s s a s s ina t ion equipment . e sa i d t ha t a l thqug

he had s o ld bugging equipment on one occas ion to the CIA aroLmd

December o f 1971, he had never inqu i red of the CIA as to whether t .hey

were i n t e r e s t e d in the a s s a s s ina t ion equipment . Morr i ssey s a i d t h a t

h i s o ~ l y :formal con tac t s he had had with conein t h a t . h e could r e c a l l . ·,;

were t he demons t ra t ion and the t ime he de l ive red the equipment. He

d id s a y t h a t he might have ~ e run i n to Conein in a b a r .

. Morr i s sey was i n t e r e s t e d in how we had come by our copy of the. , . , .. ,

c a t a logue . e s a id t h a t he had made only two copies - one fo r

Cone111 and one :for Herbel . e s a id tha t he had given a copy to

Werbei· o n l y because Herbe l had made the con tac t with Cone in

. ; ~ f 4 : .::..,

. ..

Mor ' r i ssey s a id t ha t he had rlill i n t e people ' ho s a i d t ha t the CIA·.·

had i t own: l a bora to ry which made a s s a s s ina t ion equipment , bUt t h a t\ I .

the l a b o r a t o r y had been d is so lved and the CIA now goes to ou t s ide

f OUrces f o r such equipment . e s a id t ha t people t o l d him tha t the·.

IA uses such equipment in Southeas t Asia . When I asked him what

p e o p l e , Morr i s sey s a id t ha t he didn 1 t have any names offhand, bu t



'• ---.--....._ _, .... 3. . I ;;- : ; " · . . , -

··.......

Morr i ssey s a id t ha t Cone:Ln had no know.lod[ ;e p r i o r to the demons tra t i

o f his c a p a b l i l i t i e s to manufac ture a s s a s s ina t ion equipment . WhenJ

I asked Morr i ssey why he made such ccquipment, he sa id tha t what he

·was r e a l l y a t tempt ing to sh01v were his capabi l i t i e s to manufacture

s e n s i t i v e e l ec t ron i c t r i gge r i ng devicos which might be o f i n t e r e s t ·

. :·::

to the Bureau of M-Jnec n r Lhe Atnm.i c l•:ncru;y Cummiss:Lon. When I t o ld

him t h a t he sure had a f u n n ~ way o f packae;ing his wares, he s a i d \· ....

he was n o t su rp r i sed t h a t t had r a i s e d some concern .. ,.

. . . .·

Morr i s sey sa id t ha t he had never a c t u ~ l l y t r i e d out any o f h i s

.,;

assas s ina t ion devices us ing exp los ives He ~ l s o s a i d t ha t the d e v i c ~ ~ ·

-.

which he had demonst ra ted to Conein had been r l isassembled i n to

component modules .

.; .

·, :• -<

; ;_ . 1,:

·• ..' .

-:

' ;.

..,.,_.

·· .

•

'J

I



•on J a n u a r y 20, 1975, S e n a t o r s Wcickcr nnd n a k e r and A.B. Cu lv ah o u

a n d m y s e l f met w i t h C h a r le s Co lso n at t h e US Co u r th o u se :Ln H a s h i n g t o n

DC.

As a p r e l i m i n a r y m a t t e r , Sen . 1·1eicker r e a d b a c k t h e n o t e s o f t h e

i n t e r v i e w w h i c h he had h a d w i t h C o l s o n on J a n u a r y 13, 1975. W i t h

certain c o r r e c t i o n s , C o l s o n o c n f i r m e d t h e i r a c c u r a c y . Co l so n i n d i c a t

tha t ; : i t . a s ~ R i c h a r d Ober - t h e c i A l i a i s o n man t o · K i s s i n g e r - who·.-

r e c i e v e d . ; p a c k a g e s . f rom Howard Hunt . a nd pu.ssed ' t hem on t o R i c h a rd He

··- · - - - · - . . -c o l son: :stated i that : · thec impea chm en t · h c a r ings=:. . c o n t a i n c , c e r ±:ain:::1::.

i n f o r m a t i o n ; r e l a t e d ' to , .a : - MJC. -·and - · · that · : there: · isc·an: · a f f i d a v i t c

stating : t h a t , Hunt wu.s b r i n g i n g Ober packages · . t h r o u g h Hay:_ o f ~ 1972;

wh i c h we r e - b e i n g · p a s s e d •on - to Helms:-. ( B i l l J G i l lJ o f :ABC· News=be l i eves=:

t ha t : · the· MR • . X i s ~ . :Ln ·fact; O b e r ) . C o l s o n i n d i c a t e d t h a t a l t h o u g h :

hec ·d id ·no t ' . kn6w · for s u r e , he belijved ' t h e p ack ag es p a s s e d to Obe·r . m

h a v e c o n t a i n e d - - t a p e s ~ . C o l s o n b a s e s h i s specu la t ion · . on two t h i n g s . · .

The first r e l a t e s : ; t o a n ·NBc · : in t e rv iew . With:: B e r n a r d .Bar ker. : : in A p r i l ~o f 1 ' 9 7 2 ~ Bark e r · d e s c r i b e d · b e i n g -with: H u n t : - d u r i n g · a n · i n t e r v i e w - w i t h

a n i n d i v i d u a l - i n Miami ·who h a d ' - b e e n · w i t h C a s t ro - · a t : t h e · . t i m e . · R o b e r t

Kenn·edy . -was : : a ssass ina ted . · Hunt·'. h a d -a -- tape - r e c o rd e r • and 'when B a r k e r

a'sked--Hurit ' wh a t t h e t a p e s we r e f o r , Hunt::

· ' the . c m · · B i l l ' : G i l l s ~ i d that .Hunt r e p l i e d

r e p l i e d t h a t t h e ~ w e r e

t a p i n g fo r t h e o l d

f o r

.1 _: ' J_ •,,,c o m p a n y ~ ) ~ . T h e seco n d b a s i s f o r C o l s o n ' s s p e c u l a t i o n . r e l a t e d · t o : . t h e . :

I - .ti mEi :wherl ·Hunt·.:met . w i t h · n a v i d S h a p i r o · h i l e ~ trying·_-to.:·see-cCols:on:::

; · . • · · :. ' ' t o · · pa s s , .on a , r e q u e s t f o r ' m o n e : 5 1 ~ · . When.· S h a p i r o : w o u l d n o t c l e t :Bu n t .--see•

'

' .C o l s o n , Hunt s a i d t h ~ t t h e W h i t e .House · b e t t e r · g e t · on · t h e · ' s t i c k , . that



(

v · :

· • l; ,.

,,

.n; Colson m e n t i o n e d 11or ton J a c k s o n Ligain a nd t h e f a c t t h a t Hunt

•

h a d h a d b r e a k f a s t w i t h J a c k s o n t h e m or n i ng o f t h e F i e l d i n g b r e a k - i n

4

p n d that t he Gr e e nspun c a p e s ha d b e e n p l a n n e d i n J a c k s o n ' s home.

On t h e s u b j e c t o f L u c ien Cone i n , Co lso n s t a t e d he ha d r e a s o n

b e l i e v e t h a t t h e DEA activities a b r o a d o f t h e t y p e we we r e i n t e r

~ n w e r e b e i n g h a n d l e d by Cone i n , e g . k i d n ap p i n g , a s s a s s i n a t i o n .

S e n a t o r . Baker q u e r i e d · - c o l s o n . a s •. t0 w n e t h e L h e . - h e l i e v e d M u l l e

and· ·co. · w a s : C I A ' p r o p r i e t y c i t i n g t h e f a c t s t h a t ·Cz - ld d y .o p e ra t ed o u t - -

t . thec- f i i :m ' s ma i n c l i e n t s _ we r e \j{';lghesJ. t h e ~ Cuba Committee;-)

a n d R o t a r y ~ . I n t e r n n t i o n a l l · co l son · a l s o ~ : s a i d . t h a t ..Mulli 'm and C o ~ _ h i r

f /vCol son n o t e d ~ t h a t t h e : C I A . H a t e r g a t e · j Jnent ions.- . that · : :when .Bob.

B e n n e t t ne e de d more m o n e y · t b .h ' i re a new-man, the - money was p a i d - b y e

Hughe s r a t h e r t h a n t h e CIA • .

I n r e s p o n s e t o - a - - que s t i on by Sena tor , - Weick e r , Col son stated·

that · the . · ·CIA -broke ·into t h e : C h i l e a n cEmbassy · . in · · · the: f a l V ofc' 1971J to·

instal.l : w i r e t a p s . The-. t a p s .v le re_ sh u t . o f f d u r in g the- e l e c t i o n s . b u t

r e s u m e d a f t e r w a r d t o - - m o n i t o r : · i n f o r m a t i o n . r e l a t i n g t o . t r a d e

d e l e g a t i o n s : ~ c o m i n g : ; t o : the·_ u·.s .• The t a p s w e r e . - r e m o v e d ~ i n .May o£.: '197

b e c a u s e _ t h e CIA t h o u g h t Dean knew o f t h e i r e x i s t e n c e . Col son

m e n t i o n e d t h a t i n - A p r i l · o f 1973_, HcCord h a d · c a l l e d t h e · ch i lean - ;

E m b a s s y ~ t o · g e t . hi f f i se l f - w i r e t a p p e d ~ .

With·· ,resp_ect:: t o : · the <CIA.'.s . : re l a t ionship_- w i t h : IT r ; . Colson ·

r e c o u n t e d : : a ~ s t a t e m e n t c b y · • G e n e e n : : w h e r e · .Geneen: · sa id · t h a t · we • re , .

put t i .ng_-our cmoney. t o wor k :wi t h : . y o u r ' boys . · i n .chile;. ' Col son .be l ieves

t h a . . : B e n n e t t i ~ s:: interest. i.n2·.Di t a . Beard:.was.-·. that . he othCl.ughtc.she : m i g h



• I

.. t h e CIA wa s ve ry impor tun t . JLatc r , C ol s on s a i d . he t a l k e d

,wi t h Bu z;udt who Lold him to sta y owa y f rom th e CIA- t h a t you

c a n ' t tell whe r e Hughe s beg ins und t he CIA ends and t h a t t h e r

C .. -a r e s ome b ig Repub l i c an s i nvo lved . Colson s a i d he t a l k e d

t o Nixon tw ice a f t e r t h a t and t h a t Nixon t o l d him to s t a y

o u t o f t he ma t t e r - t h a t s omeon e 1.n Cols o n ' s o f f i c e was f e ed i n

inform<1t ion to t h e CIJ\.. C ol so n ; a i d t h a t all o f . h is - conversa tm

wi t h Nixon· ·had .been . s u b p o c n c bu t · on ly t . - w o : w c r c · i n t r o d t i c e d ~

Al l J th e , r e s t w e r e w i t h h e l d ~• • __.. ..- . r-· - - - .- • -

co l son· :s ·aid =..t h a t ·: : in r h:is .:.c onvc r s a t i on s ·.. i t h N i x o n ; Nixo

had an ·obse s s i on abou t Hunt :; . In · e s p ~ n s e to ·COlson t e l l i n g ._:

Nixon to -ge t ou t · t h e Waterg a t e · s t o r y , . Nixon kept r e f er r i r i g _to

th e ·. t roub l e .wi t h Hunt · a r i s i n g . ou t : o f H u n t - s con t a c t s wi t h ··

Ehr l i chman .and :Colson . Th i s c o ~ v e r s a t i o n occurcd on F eb ru a r y

13 j , 1 9 7 3 In .an ·ea rlie r · conve r s a t i on ;on ·.June ·:20 ,· , 1972 .. whenc:oCol son was t e l l i n g Nixon .·to expose t ho s e , i nvo lved ··iri Wate rga t

.N'i xon · t o l d . Colson :. t h a t u t h ey · know ·abou t - Hunt ·..:

11 apparen t ly_ , . a s

,Colson see s .. i t , - . i n · an e f f o r t to .s low Colson .down • .Colson .

r e r n a r k e d t h a b t h e P r e s i p e n t ~ s o b s e s s i o n .abou t :.Hunt ,·.and ·:h i s

w 4\Scon t a c t s -·wi th . Ehr l i chman :and .:co l s on 1\ exp re s sed months ·be f

ev idence shows t h a t · Nixon had . knowledge o f t he ·El l s be r g b r e a k

__ . (March -12 / , 1973) .

r·

.

,•

.

,. .

Colson r e coun t ed .. e n n e t t ~ ;. i nqu i r y to . hiro .-. ab6ut ' f i nd i

o u t ~ h a t Maheau .d i d . ' wi t h ··:tb e -:• $50 ·;000 ::, 1 t h a t w a S S U p f > 9 S e d t o.. - to -. Rebozo.; . and ·whe the r ' o r :.no t Maheau ·. had ·poe ke t ed t h e ....money • .

Col son .s e n t c.a ·. me mo ·to Dean ·; . which ·· is ·.now in : .th e . hand ::Lof i th e .



. i.I ,

.....

•

o .r·

. l .~ . . .

. : ,

o n e who recommended HcCord f o r a j o b at CREEP.~ .o f a F e b ru a ry 2 8 , 1973 m e e t i n g a t t h e W a t e r

H o t e l b e tw een B e n n e t t a nd E r i c I s e n s t e a d . B e n n e t t s a i d I will

c a r e o f E r v i n if y o u t a k e c a r e o f H u n t . A r e c o r d o f ti:his

c o n v e r s a t i o n is i n t h e CIA W a t e rg a t e F i l e .

Sen a t o r Bak e r i n q u i r e d as to · , . ,he ther Col son had a,ny

knowledge o f dorrsc : s t ic a s s a s s i n a t i o n · p p e r a t i o n s . . Colson. · r e p l i e

he-:did.:::not:.know · n t t h a t , s u c h · ·. o p e ra t i o n s . o d i d : : go on . o v e r s e a s ;

c o l so n . s a i d ' t ha t ' . t h e - c iA · had ·n ·een try:i-ng : .hiud.: : to: ~ - s c ~Andrew ·st•.: G e o r g e - t h a t · t h e . ~ a g e n c y \vas • . a f ra id o f . him·;,\.

J

Col son said: we s h o u ld : look:; i n t o . t h e . s u r ro u n d i n g s , .of : th

d e a t h of . -an I ta l ia iJ . • ; named· s a r : t i ; .who w a s . ~ a . = m a j q r · · n a r c o t i c s . ~ .

t r a f f i c k e r · . · s h o t · in· · He x i c o · a b o u t . two· · ·years · · agoc·. S a r t i ~ b o u g h t - h

way_ o u t · · o f ' j a i l · · an d · g o t to He x i c o whe r e he was sh o t . C o l s o n s a

this . c a s e w i l l · s h o w t h e o t h e r · h a l f o f C o n e i n ' s · o p e r a t i o n c .

Co lso n d i s c u s s e d · c e r t a i n . p r i v a t e . · f i rms e i t h e r =.c.CL.b,y_th

CIA o r . used_b.;;:_ t h e : : C I A ~ . T h e s e ~ i n c l u d e : _'_ _ f ; t e r t ~ } r a . p r i v a t e · d e t e c t i v e f i i :m in : l ' la sh ing ton

owned by. Hu h es · d o i n g ' l e - ~ f - c - r - t h - ~ : - H - \ : . - : - . - - - - - -

A n d e r s on & e = ~ y · - - f ~ a s l l i , . i ; ; < l l l . : : ; s - CIA .p r o p r i e t y

~ k s r nH o r t o n ~ s Law FiEm

There : .was a l s o m e n t i o n o f . t h e f i rm o f ~ _ p . r : e _ x and Barood w h i ~came,•out:Cof. t h e f i r m of,Do'WTI and·•Rooseve l t - : : · t h e . l a t t e r _ h a v i n g _ .

d e f i i l a t e : ·CIA ties: .

Sen a t o r • W e i c k e r : . inqu i red . · . as : t b .whe the r l f>eps i co }may·_ hkv:e~ r mell ties. C o l s o n ' s a i d ' t h a t any __ d o i n g b u s i n e s s - i n · t h



- :.,.,.....,....,

- · · b o n a f i d e s e s t u b l i s h e d b u t r a t h e r n eed o d o n l y to make t h e tie of

\....

;;·

•

more

Colson t h e n b eg an listing t h e a r e a s we s h o u l d e x p l o r e

t horo u g h l y :v

- R i c h a r d O b er - b e l i e v e s h i s r o l e was critical an d

he w o u l d know w h at >vas b e i n g p a s s e d be t we e n Hun t a n

Helms.

( t i ' T t z Kramer zmd J a y I ?ves;Qrd v ~ t o ~ r a n t h e

p r o j e c t s f o r t h e AFL-ciO. K r a m e r ~ KJ<;s ' J l9er ' s rabb

(who is somehow c o n n e c t e d to L o v e s t o n e - t h i s n e e d s

f u r t h e r e x p l o r a t i o n w i t h C o l s o n ) ,

-clifford Ti::ving J . l u .n u sc r ip t - co l so n · sa i d . - t h a t s o me t

in . t he · I r v i n g m a n u s c r i p t . t h r e w . t h e . h ' h i t e .H o u s e ; . B e n

and 'Hughes.o_iilto. p a n i c ; . IJunt · and· McCord ·-were- a p p r o ab y · . J i u g h e s ~ ' p e o p l e to: : s t e a L the._ a n u s c r i p t ~ . Hlint::andC

Mccord · s a i d · : they w o u la n e e d . : ~ 5 . ' 0 0 0 ~ ' f o r ; the-::jcib: .HugJ

p<:wple. sa i d ' ; .... t o o : u c h ~ : ~ · , so . t h e : c j 9 b ~ - was : ·never; · ~ l l eo f L ' _There was- s p e c u l a t i o n . a r o u n d : ~ t h e : t a b l e . t h a t ·by_

t ime :Hunt .and:· .McCord:.came:.:around_cwith:. the;:SSk. f i g u r e

Hughes · . p ~ o p ; L e u n a y ~ g a v e o - b o u g h t c c o f f t i r v i n g : .Co l s o n b e

B i l l , Safi : i :e -had :a copy o f . ' t h e . m a n u s c r i p t ~ .

Co lso n m e n t i o n e d t h a t Helms h ad gone . ·out . o f . ~ h i s - Hay to g

J-1ur.-t. · t-o·· \ p l a c e d . in a j o b . A f t e r Hunt \·lent ' . I\ wor k ataullen; he· ·

c o m p l a i n e d ' t h a t . h i s pay was n o t c o m p a r a b l ' e ~ t o \vha t he ha d b e e n · p

at t h e c iA . B e n n e t t : t h e n r a i s e d ~ . h i s : . s a L 3 . r y ; : t o . · · a = c o m p a r a b l e · l e v e £

'olson · s a i d ' H u n t ~ s · · "cas ing" ' p h o t o s · of t h e cF i e l d i n g · . • o f f i ce

w e r e . p r o c e s s e d b y t h e • · C I A ~ . The·. p h o t o s . :were ogiv en : d i r e c t l y to :Helm

withC: .F ie ld ing ' s n ame · : c i r c l ed ;

S e n a t o r Bak er . a s k ed Co lso n i f . h e knew why Hunt had s t o p p e d

a t : · . t h e : .Pen tag o n _ f o r two. h o u r s · p::::ior t o e - l eav i n g f rom D u l l e s ~ o nF i e l d i n g · : b r e a k ' - i n ~'

Col son" s. specu la t ion : · , t h aL .H u n t 5 . - : a n d . \ thec.CIA' s s j u s t i f ic a t

. foDxs ,upplyi i lg · t h e ·-wigfil ld·· ·other eqq ipment ·= to :Hunt :was · - f i c t i t i ous

· H u n t · d i d : : n o t -n eed · any ·d i sgu ise : .. to : :: : in te rv iew DeM.c>tt •.s i n c e . B e n n e t t ·



- , . ./' . . . .

•

. '

·'

• .

.. · .. ·-·...

/:: · J -

b r e a k - i n . Co l so n s a i d Smyth h ad done s ome debugging work fo

( t h i s way n ee d c l rific a t i o n .

co l s on s a i d Seymour Hus h h a d t he CLA s t o r y plus much

~ k in Janua ry o f 1974. Hus h ca ll ed C olson and t o l d him

co lby h a d s pen t two hour s in h i s o f f i c e conf i rming e ve ry th i

was · dur ing th e t im e o f t he meet ings Colson was having w i t h

. a nd ·:. Buz h a r d t .

C olson . s a id d he _c ou la .:gg .. h i o u g ~ .. h e H e l i n ~ t e s t i m o n

Colson ·s a i d :·h e w a s w i t h K i s s i n g o n J u n e l 4 ~ . a t o

a f t e r . t he .:Pe n t a gon =Paper s -- broke ·• C o l s o n s a i d h i s l o g ~ s :::c· show

wa s wi t h . K i s s i n g e r o n Tues day . t h115th an d h e ; i s ..su re he w a sK i s s i ~ g e o n Monday . C ol son ·· s a id · K i s s in ge r wa s going t h r oug

c e i l i r i g ~ t h a t K i s s i n g e r w a s a l m o s t i r r a t i o n a l ~ C o l s o n ~ f e e l st h a t tb e.re .·-i s · some t h ing .more deep and _ p e r s o n a L t o He nry :-x is

t han · th e · o v e r s w h i c b w e r ~ l o w n b y t h e l ~ a k : Colson a l s o . t o

o f K i s s i n g e r s ·c l o s e · r e l'a t i onsh ip _. wi th >R ockef e l l o r :-and .: Kis s

·

I· t 4 , I

:::· -· ·



.. , : · . tr -·c o l s o n s a i d h e knows t h a t t h e CIA g av e Hunt t h e name o f a

1972 , and t h a t t h e CIA g av e H u n t /A n d erso n

a s e c u r i t y j o b f o r Hughes 1n Las V•

se on

a J u l y 10 memo f r o ~ w s k ~ ( p h o n e t i c ) o

·r:t h e CIA to files The memo s t a t e d t h a t B e n n e t t s a i d t h a t he had

a backdoor c o n t a c t w i t h Edward B en n e t t h ' i l l i a m s an d if t h e CIA a

B e n n e t t . w i l l _ f e e d . i n f o r m a t i o n - to · him to - g e t · t h e h e a t c · s h i f t e d awa

f.fom-=the:..:CIA to . t h e : White . House. and- ·Colson: . T h i s ~ hlemo went : to : -Rc

, w h o s e d . n i t i a i s · app_ear · n · : - . i f : ~ . Colson• · . l a w y e r ~ Ken· .Adams,. s a i d t h a

·o n l y - have,- learned. ' :£ rom --Bennett-;-. For--· examp;J_e,-, Adams .:s a i d · . that ·

W i l li a m s ' first: q u e s t i o n · ' t o ' :Hunt:·.was -=whether · ·nunt ·h ad ·-gQne=to ·

c h a p p a q u i d d i c k · t o r - i n t e rv i e w DeMott;: c o l s o n · h a d t e s t i f i e d - ~ a b o u t · t h

,,. 'b e f o r e . t h e . g r a n d j u r y b u t does n o t b e l i e v e W i l l i a m s g o t it· f rom

Si. lbert · · ·or- · G l a n z e r ~ .

·. Co l s o n • r e f e r r e d ' t o : - a : ~ l i s t .o f :P lumbers : · a c t i v i t i e s · : w h i c h h a d ~

b een .shown:. to . h i m ~ · b y , · the . :FBI: T h e ~ m e m o / l i ~ t = w a s ~ d a t e d A u ~ u s t<• 3 1 - 7 l ~ a n d ~ l i s t e d ~ t h e . - p r o j e c t s • w h i ~ h · w e r e : b e i r i g . u n d e r t ak en by t h e

;. . .· \ ... -

one- i t em·had · . ' been : ;b lacked : :ou tc . At ' the · : .pointc :Colson ' . s ·. .

l< ' l :w ;e r s : to ld . tbe FBI . : tha t . co l son .was • ·a -defendan t • : in t h e c a se , t h e. • . .

<.,.w:t thdrew t h e , d o cu men t and - ' t e rmina ted t h e · i n t e r v i e w . C o l s o n ' s · · law•f .:n

. . . . . t

.. , made· . h a n d w r i t t e n · n o t e s of:the·list w h i c h - -h e · w i l l s u p p l y t o ~ m e . · ..(. • ,

, • ' • • .

.. ;,· ... -:·; . Sen_ . h ' e i c k e r . c : i n q ~ i r e d . , o f ~ C o l s o n ' s · knowledge- , ;of .meet ings , ;.. . '

' : ... . .

.. :;\._:,, : : t D ; : ~ r d i a n ; ' . s : : o p e r a t i cmcin• · . the<ein te rna l lS ecu r i ty·: ·di v i s ion: · .a t :

< . . , \ .. .·. - .;·t;;, J u a t i c e . · . Co l s o n . b e l i e v e d l t h e •CIA was-- in to : : - the : : opera t ion ; . p a r t i c u

· ~ : J··.-; . ., \ . '' • '. .*· .. l l b , . • '

t.iiDe, - - funne l l ing · · in fo : r :mat ion • to .H a rd i a n . : Colson . :r:·,;. · , ~ .... ·•

. ..

· J u l y 111 a n d ' 12; . 1971 S a n · . c lemente .mee t i n g s w h ere



CHUCK COLSON SEXPLOSIVEINTERVIEWON TH CIA NIXON,HOOVER, HUGHES, JFK

How To Talk Your WayTo Fame nd FortuneThe Fine Art OfIntimidating JustAbout Everybody

Doctors On Dope tTheNew

American

KillersLiving With A Single GirlWho Why, WhenWhere nd How

Survival SchoolsLearning To Live InThe Outside



• l Exclusive Algosy Interview

Charles Colson's explosive views on whoset up Nixon for the Watergate fallwhy d g a r Hoover blackmailed JFK and

how Howard Hughes controls the CI

I

·-_'

. . . . . . . . .

. r· r ~

By Dick Russell

\

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MARCH, 1976/ 2



He allegedly was known as the masterof

dirty tricks, keeper of the White House

Enemies List and toastmaster of themorning Attack Group. Jolm Dean nailedhim, the CIA assailed him. Reviled by hisfoes and eventually by many of his allegedfriends, Charles Co/son-Special Counselto the President-has seemingly claimed thedubious historical distinction of hatchetman for the Nixon Administration.

This interview, his first extensive on-therecord talk since gaining release fromFederal prison on January 31, 1975, offers avastly differelll perspective on Watergate

and a more frightening one. It probes Colsons analysis of the spidery relationship between the CIA and invisible billionaireHoward Hughes, a relationship which Colson and others have speculated may have

been part of a plot to dri1•e Richard Nixonfrom office. Specifically, t is Colson s lookback at his true role in Watergate-what he

actually did compared to what certainforces wanted the world to believe he did.

The Charles Colson of 19 76 bears little

resemblance to the political infighter whoonce was said to have vowed to walk overmy grandmother, i fnecessary, to get Nixonre-elected. Today, a cartoon about thatfamed remark hangs on the wall in his oldWashington law office o f Dickstein,Shapiro Morin, where Colson occasionally still meets visitors. Today, the majority of his time is occupied with his-prl 'OiJministry, where he is an associate of a nondenominational religious center calledFellowship House, and with his just-published awobiography, Born Again an account for Chosen Books and Fleming H.Revell Publishers ofhis con version to Chris

tianity in the aftermath o f Watergate.At fo rty-four, the newly soft-spoken,

almost gentle Chuck Colson looks upon thepast as another lifetime. That lifetimebegan at twenty-two, when he became theyoungest Company Commander in theMarine Corps. It also found him theyoungest administrative aide in the Senateat twenty-seven, then a brilliant Boston lawyer and that city's Outstanding YoungMan of 1960. It was during those formative years that Colson met the man whowould wield the strongest influence on hislife Richard M. Nixon.

Long a Nixon admirer, after working to

gel him elected in 1968, Colson left his lawpractice to join the White House staff onNovember 1. 1969 as Special Counsel inchargeo f iaison with outside gro ups (whichincluded everyone from hard hats to theLeague of Women Voters), a seeminglystraightforward task. But by the time the1972 campaign rolled around, Colson's responsibilities had broadened considerably.Considerably, and dangerously.

Chuck finally became like the old gunfighter, one associate says. In the end,killings 250 miles away got charged tohim.

According to his accusers, these were

some of the new roles assumed by Colson in

the days of tricks and poses:e Ordering E. Howard Hunt, whom he

brought to the White House as a consultant,to break imo Arthur Bremer's apartmentafter the Wallace shooting; to forge State

Department cables implicating John Ken

nedy in the murder o f Vietnamese PresidentDiem in 1963; to rush in disguise to the bedside of Dita Beard and silence her mutlerings about the ITT scandal; to go to Chap

paquiddick for some damaging new information about Ted Kennedy's 1969 accident.

• Organizer o fpaid public rallies in support of Nixon 's mining of Haiphong harbor,of an attack on network news correspondents, of a proposed burglary and irebombing of the Br.ookings In stitute office of ex

Kissinger aide Morton Halperin; receiverof

information from Secret Service agents whowere assigned to Edmund Muskie and

George McGovern, and who secretly reported those candidates' activities to theWhite House.

e Labeled by some as the paymaster or

Hunt .and Gordon Liddy in the Ellsberg psy

chiatrist break-in, and by witnesses at theWatergate hearings as the mastermind o fover thirty dirty tricks missions.

Ultimately, Colson pleaded guilty to asingle charge: one count of obstruction ofjustice in connection with the PentagonPapers trial of Daniel Ellsberg. Admittinghe 'd been an arrogant, e l j ~ s s u r e d man in

the ruthless exercise ofpower, Colson added: My plea acknowledges that I endeavored to disseminate derogatory information about Dr. Ellsberg and his attorney

while he was under indictment. On June 21, 1974, Colson received a

one-to-three-year prison sentence and a

$5,000 ine; all other charges were droppedTwo days later, a conversation with Colsonsurreptitiously taped by Washington privatedetective Richard Bast appeared in theWashington Post. It contained the first hintthat Colson believed Watergate could havebeen set up by forces beyond White Housecontrol.

At the time, many major media brandedColson s remarks as ridiculous. But sincehis parole after serving seven months inprison, he has continued to search for answers to the greatest political puzzle inAmerican history. And most ofColson's allegations have proved incredible, but true.

It is now public record that the CIA notonly destroyed some of its material aboutWatergate, bill it sent a contract employeenamed Lee Pennington, Jr. to wipe out evidence in the home of Watergate burglarJames McCord. Then, last summer, asource for the House Select Committee onIntelligence revealed that classified CIAdocuments show an agency infiltration into Nixon's Oval Office, using someonewho ranked j ust below Bob Haldeman and

John Ehrlichman. At the same time, theWhite House aide who first revealed the ex

istence of he Nixon taping system to Senateinvestigators- Alexander Butterfield- was

identified by retired colonel Fletcher Prouty

as a contact man for the CIA in the WhiteHouse.

Curious links between the CIA, HowarbHughes, and the White House have continued to surface, too. It's beenacknowledged that Hughes' firms are thelargest contractors for the CIA, and thatdozens of federal employees have movedeasily from the government onto the Hughespayroll, which for the last ten years has

maintained an average take from U.S. taxpayers ofnearly $1. 7million a day. What isnot so widely known is the use of theHughes organization as a paymaster-typefront for CIA undercover agems aroundthe world, as revealedby the recent publication of documents stolen from Hughes 'Summa Corporation offices.

The fact that the CIA awarded a $350million contract to Hughes to recover asunken Soviet submarine, and that the CIAused Hughes ' right-hand m'an, RobertMaheu, as a liaison with the Mob in attempts to assassinate Fidel Castro, may yet

prove to be but the tip of the iceberg of the

Hughes-CIA marriage contract. Or soCharles Colson believes.

Consider, for example, a mysterious and

since-disbanded public relations outfitcalled the Mullen Company, which maintained offices right across the street fromthe White House throughout the Nixonyears. Even Howard Hunt admits in hismemoirs that the Mullen Company$ overseas branches were long maintained as CIAfronts. It was former CIA Director RichardHelms, in fact, who got Hunt a job with theMullen Company upon Hunts retirementf rom the agency in 1970. Hunt's boss was

R obert Bennett, who brought a Hughes pub

lic relations account with him upon assuming the Mullen presidency. And Bennett,who, like Hunt, had close ties to the WhiteHouse, was a curious fellow indeed.

The son of ormer Utah Senator WallaceBennett, the Mullen president was knownaround Washington as an active Nixonfund-raiser. With regard to Watergate, however, Senate investigators sa w him assuming a dif]'erent role. In the Senate's MinorityReport on CIA Involvement, Bennett isnamed as the party who relayed secret messages between Hunt and Liddy after thebreak-in, and who leaked sensitive information to both the press and the CIA about

Watergate events, while concealing anylinks to the Mullen Company.

Listen now to the musings of CharlesColson, who observed this bizarre sequenceof events from the inside. Listen and

wonder, as he does, abou( what really happened with the downfall of a president.

y O'Brien workedHughes even afterhe became Democratic

National Chairman.



ARGOSY: In a long interview publishedin the Washington Post in the summer of

1 ~ 7 4 you speculated to Richard Bast thatRichard Nixon might well have been setup on Watergate by the CIA. How doyou feel about that possibility now?COLSON: Clearly something was set upat the Watergate break-in. Not only wasthe tape placed .on the door twice, but alot of guys in prison who'd done bagjobs told me that the first lesson in

break-ins is to place the tape vertically,not horizontally like the Watergate guysdid. Horizontally , it can be seen; it wasalmost like a signal. Then there's the factthat the police on duty were workingovertime without instructions to do so.They just happened to be at the scene of

the break-in.We do know that a man name Q A .J.

Woolston-Sm the wa s working harurnr-ov 1 e A in New York. He's

the fellow who first alerted.WWiam l;la d- minor functionary in Democraticpolit1cs in New York, that he suspectedthere was going to be a break-in or

electronic surveillance of the Democrats.Haddad communicated that to LarryO'Brien [the Democratic National Committee chairman whose office was supposedly the Watergate burglars' target] ,and it was also leaked to Jack Anderson[syndicated columnist). This leaves theunanswered mystery of why, if theyreally knew about it in advance, nobodydid anything about it.ARGOSY: A.J. Woolston-Smythe worksdirectly for the CIA ?COLSON: Contract employee.ARGOSY: So , even beyond the CIAconnections of the break-in team, there

were more CIA ties elsewhere?COlSON: Well, it's common knowledgethat Helms [Richard Helms, then direc-

--

tor of the CIA) received a phone callfrom the duty officer of the CIA thenight of the break-in. Helms is reportedto have said, Now they've finally doneit. By that offhand remark, the assumption is he knew something was happening.Then you have the CIA's very curiousconduct after the break-in-sending thisguy Pennington [Lee Pennington, Jr. , aCIA contract employee] to burn all the

files in [James] McCord's home, and

having someone clean out the car of[Felipe] de Diego or [Eugenio) Martinez,I forget which one. Also, there's themoney that was left in McCord's possession after the break-in. McCord, in histestimony to the Ervin committee, accounted for every penny he ever receivedand spent. But it doesn't jive with[Watergate prosecutor Earll Silbert'stestimony of what they found in McCord's bank account records-$40 ,000deposited in the last few weeks beforethe break-in, which saved McCord Associates from bankruptcyARGOSY: Do you think that money

came from the CIA?COLSON: I have no idea. All I can tellyou is that when you really study theflow of money, you can't help seeing that

more was involved than was ever admitted . Maybe CIA, or maybe there wasmoney coming from other sources.Maybe Howard Hughes.ARGOSY: How does Howard Hughesfit into this scenario?COLSON: You start with the fact thatLarry O'Brien was on a $100,000-a-yearretainer with Hughes through I970. Thenthe account was taken over by Bob Bennett of the Mullen Company, and

testimony shows that the Hughes-Bennett relationship was set up by the CIA. Isurmised, back when I was probing for

..

answers to all this, that there was a rivalry between Larry O'Brien and Bob Bennett. I've heard from other sources, and

have no reason to doubt it, that O'Brienremained on a Hughes retainer through1972. That means he was being retainedby Hughes while [he was) DemocraticNational Chairman. O 'Brien had beenRobert Maheu's guy in Washingtonwhen Maheu was still Hughes' righthand man. After the power s truggle in

side of Hughes' organization, the oldMaheu crowd goes, but it 's still fightingthe new crowd. So maybe Bennett wouldbe interested in spying on O'Br ien, because the new Hughes crowd wants tofind out what O'Brien knows. Andmaybe the CIA is interested, too, to see

how much O'Brien knew about the oldMaheu faction. The real motive, it seemsto me, comes back to Hughes and theCIA. It just doesn't make sense that we[the White House) would go to all thatextreme to find out what was going on inO'Brien's office in the first place.ARGOSY: We'd like to pursue that, bu

first , can you go a little further on thHughes-CIA relationship ?COLSON: Remember that RoberMaheu was suing Hughes after his falfrom grace in the Hughes empire. Andthe suit is all about documents that are inthe safe of Hank Greenspun [publisheof the Las Vegas Sun and closely tied toHughes interests]. Remember also, fromWatergate testimony and Howard Hunt'sbook, that there was an aborted plan tobreak into Greenspun s safe. Originallythis was labeled as another operation bythe Committee to Re-Elect the Presiden(CREEP). Later, it was established tha

it wasn

but that Hughes and the CIAdid have an interest in it. That plan for abreak-in was to be conducted by Hun

I

..

MARCH 1978/31



and [Gordon] Liddy, and clearly for the

Hughes corporate interests, just a few

months efore the Watergate break-in.When the aborted Greenspun plan iseventually exposed, the first cover storyis a connection with CREEP. I was implicated as being involved, but I d never

heard of it. So couldn't the Watergatehave had a Hughes' plan behind it, too?You have to wonder, was Watergate justan aberration? Or part of a pattern?

ARGOSY: But you mentioned [Hughes'and] the CIA's common interest in thecontents of Greenspon's safe. Whywould they have been concerned?COLSON: Well, if there were documents in there that could have been em

barrassing to Hughes and/or Maheu,who's to say that they just dealt withHughes ' corporate enterprises? Theymay well have dealt with Hughes-CIAoperations, and particularly Maheu andhis involvement in CIA attempts to assassinate Castro.ARGOSY: Are there other CIA-Hugheslinks to Watergate besides the Greenspun thing and Larry O'Brien?COLSON: Yes, there s one other dimension. There were two phones tapped bythe Watergate break-in team in theDemocratic National Committee offices,those of O'Brien and Spencer Oliver, Jr. Ithink it's noteworthy that Spencer

Oliver's father worked for Hughes, andthat Spencer Oliver, Jr. had once been

under contract to the CIA. [Oliver, Jr .was also executive director of the Association of State Democratic Chairmen.]What you have to wonder is which of the

two warring factions in the Hughes em

pire was plugged into the CIA-or wereboth of them ? In prison one night, lasked Jeb Magruder why the Watergatebreak-in was undertaken, and he almosthad a stroke. He said bugging SpencerOliver's phone was a mistake. I said, wellthen, why did they go in and rewire it?And leave it bugged? He then stutteredall over the place and said, well, their offices [O'Brien's and Oli ver, Jr .'s] were

right next to each other, they worked together. Of course, that's not true. So, bothmen who were bugged had connectionsto the CIA and to HughesARGOSY: From what you've said so

far, though, we might be led to assumethat the White House had absolutelynothing to do with the Watergate breakin. We know, of course, that it did-and

that the cover-up eventually led to theresignation of a president. So who in theWhite House w s directly involved?COLSON: I believe Jeb Magruder whenhe says that [John] Mitchell gave him ago-ahead, at the March 30 [1972] meeting

in Key Biscayne. But I also believe

picked Gerald Ford as ,impeachment insurance.Ihink that Nixon

Mitchell when he says he didn 't give

Magruder the go-ahead. I can see themsitting around after a few drinks,Mitchell shrugging it of f, and Magruder,being eager, goes ahead. I don 't knowhow much Mitchell knew of the details,although I know he knew there was awire tap capability . Magruder's kind of

flaky in his testimony. He might havebeen doing it for the wrong reasons. Butthe real question remains-why?ARGOSY: Do you think that Magrudercould have been working for somebodybesides the White House?COlSON: 1 don t really want to speculate on that, because I wouldn 't want to

impugn Jeb's motives. But there are a lotof people who have considered that as a

possibility.ARGOSY: Do you believe that the CIAmight actually have had a spy inside theNixon White House?COLSON: Oh, absolutely, I'm convinced they did. It could've been anynumber of people. I was alwayssuspicious of Alexander Butterfield whenI was in the White House. For a lot of

reasons. So I wasn t surprised when thatDaniel Schorr story came out about himlast summer, although I think it's beenpretty well discredited.

ARGOSY: What were some of yourreasons to suspect Butterfield 's role?COLSON: He was never really a teamplayer. He kept to himself. And it'scurious that he was the one man who satjust outside the president's office, hadcontrol of the tapes and tape recordingsystem, and ha d the ability to see everysingle piece of paper that crossed Nixon'sdesk. He was the guy in charge of

sec urity. Remember , he was recommended to the White House by JoeCalifano of the prior administration. If

you knew Alex, he wasn't the br ightestguy in the world. But he was methodical.

Just the way he operated, I always wondered if he was a plant of the military,which was his background. Then therewas the way he turned on Nixon as he

did [telling the Senate about the taping

system]. It was just out of character forthe loyal, heel-clicking aide. But I'm not

persuaded that he was a CIA contactman. I mean, I would have to acceptAlex's denial at face value.ARGOSY: Do you think we can rule outJohn Dean as a CIA employee?COlSON: Yes , I do. I can t tell youdefinitely who it was, or how manydifferent people they had as sources of

intelligence, but I m convinced, from



studying all the evidence, t ~ t [E_Howard] Hunt was on e. But he may have

ooen duped into i t

ARGOSY: What's the strongest evi

dence that links Hunt, other than hislong career ties , with the Agency?COLSON: I f you read the affidavit filedby a Mr. X" in the impeachment hear

ings, [the CIA deleted the name and inserted "Mr. X") you find him talkingabout material w sent directly to Helmsat the CIA Now Mr. X" is the guy who

is the CIA liaison to the White House

and sits on the National Security Councilstaff. Hunt has acknowledged, and

there 's an affidavit, that he [Hunt] was

sending packages and materials regularlythrough that channel while he was still on

the White House staff_Then there are the CIA memoran

dums that were exhibits at the Ervin

hearings from General [Vernon] Waltersand Helms to [Patrick] Grey at the FBI ,including one of July 28,1972, which talksabout having installed electronic equipment for Hunt and Mr. "Creo"-a codename for Sidney Gottlieb, head of the

CIA's Technical Services Division. Thiss another of those little facts that went

by largely unnoticed. In one ftle there's acomplete report of how Hunt asked forand obtained a recording capacity- un

derstand now it was inside a briefcase

so he could record conversations. I don't

know whether it was overt or covert The

CIA memo says it was overt, but then

why wa · - · ? A -

are Hunt made lots of tapes. esays they never recovered the rec

order. What about the tapes? The only

conclusion a reasonable man can draw isthat Hunt was obviously taping for the

CIA, and obviously delivering them.Where that leads you, what kind of tapes

and for what purpose, I have no way of

knowing. None of these things did Iknow about at the time, and I was sup-

posed to be ' ron aint.r mg to [Bernar

testimony, Hunt recruited the break-inteam four months before I employed him

at the White House. Hunt went to Miamiin April, 1971 and left a note for Barkersaying, I f you're the same Barker Iworked with before [on anti-Castrooperations for the CIA], call me . Eduar

do." I didn't recommend Hunt to the

White House staff until July . So why wasHunt recruiting the Watergate break-inteam before he even knew he was goingto be in the Wh ite House?

ARGOSY: The fact remains that you did

e CIA's been coveringp a lot more than the

White House ever did.

hire Hunt as a White House consultant.

Since both of you altended Brown Uni

versity , did you know of him when you

were in school there?COLSON: No . I met him at a BrownUniversity alumni party many yearsARGOSY: Were you close friends during the late 1960s?COLSON: No, that's another one of the

myths of Watergate. We were invited to

dinner at his home many times, and wewent twice. He's an engaging fellow, wit

ty, a great conversationalist. And his wifewas a charming woman .ARGOSY: So how did you happen tobring him into the White House?

COLSON: Well, he was available. I believed his political loyalties were very

solidly with us. We were interested in

someone who would do all the researchinto the Pentagon Papers, and he had the

perfect qualifications . Plus he had severaltimes offered his services to me. He wasactually sixth on a list of names I submit-

ted to [Bob] Haldeman . The other fivefor one reason or another, just didn 'work out.

ARGOSY: What was the relationshibetween Hunt and Richard Helms ?COLSON: Hunt had worked in Helms

office at the CIA. And Helms helped him

when he was in ftnancial difficulty, gav

him $20,000 at the time of his separatio

from the agency. Yet when Helms wafirst asked about his relationship wit

Hunt, he said he had bare ly heard of him

Later, he confessed to the fact that he

ha d. Helms is really one of the mor

fascinating characters to emerge. He con

tradicted himself in testimony over and

over again, denying things he later admit

ted. He lives under an amazing protectiv

shroud. No one has ever gone after him

for perjury, or for his dem onstrated rolein some of the dirty tricks of the CIA

[Helms is now U.S. Ambassador to Iran.It was also Helms, according to the CIA 's

continued on page 5

)

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MARCH1976 3



n injury is much sooner forgottenthan an insult"-Lord Chesterfield

Some years ago, I was walking across a busy in tersection,with the light , as a blue Pontiac turned the corner. I had thelegal right-of-way so he should have stopped and allowed me

to cross in front of him. But he didn't . I had to jump out of his

way. "Watch it, you idiot " I yelled."Go take a flying fuck at the moon '' the driver yelled

back,just before accelerating away.I reached the curb and told my adrenaline glands to stop

squirting their juices through my veins. If the driver hadstopped and gotten out of his car to confront me, adrenalinewould have helped me fight or flee . But it did nothing tospeed up my mouth .

t wasn't the first time I'd been defeated in a duel of angrywords. Too many times I'd suffered from rudeness, insultsand put-downs without being able to defend myselfwith theright words. was tired of being a ninety-seven-pound wordweakling constantly pushed around by other people'smouths. I couldn't challenge every rude waiter, sa lespersonor hostile stranger to a fistfight. That wouldn't be civilized.

And besides, a lot of those people were bigger and strongerthan I was. What I needed in these encounters were the rightwords to defend my turf.Oh , often I had come up with thosewords , but they always came two hours late, with the benefitof 20/20 hindsigh t But that incident was the last straw. I'dhad enough of being a passive victim in an aggressive society,and I decided then and there to learn enough verbal duelingto draw blood quickly.

My weakness in oral combat went back a long way. Onlytwice in my childhood did I ever hear profanity at homeboth times when my fa ther used the term "d amn fool" inreferring to Harry Truman. Sure, my father taught me how t

fight, but with my fists , not my mouth. And it didn 't take melong to discover that you became king of the hi II more oftenwi th a fast mouth than with fast fists .

By Norman Lewis mith

tp



fortune. At the time, Paris was inundatedwith Russians escaping the new regime,

Kunetl reasoned that as soon as theybecame settled, they would search out

ways to recapture their old lifestylewhich included vodka drinking. But theydidn t. Undaunted, he left Paris forAmerica, where the word was that anyone with any kind of secret formulacould find fame and fortune.

Looking back over Kunett s planning,you could say his logic was terrific but his

timing was lousy . He arr ived in Bethel,Connecticut in 1934, right in the middleof the country s biggest and longest depression. It took him about a half-dozenyears to realize that he wasn t going tomake a go of Smirnoff vodka, so helooked around for someone to buy it,lock , stock and barrel.

The someone who did was John Martin , then president of a small companycalled Heublein. But in spite of h is marketing expertise, and even with a salesforce to plug it, all Martin could manageto sell in 1939 was a paltry 6,000 cases of

Smirnoff vodka.

World War II came and went, and stillvodka sales in the United States werenothing to get excited about. Its true introduction to the American drinker cameabout with the birth of the MoscowMule. The drink was born in the Cock nBull Tavern in Los Angeles, in 1947, theproduct of the tinkering of Martin and

bartender Jack Morgan. If you ve neverhad a Moscow Mule, it s vodka mixedwith ginger beer and lime juice. The

drink was an instant success in LosAngeles. After California set the trend

for the country , the Moscow Muleworked its magic for Vodka all across the

United States .Vodka could have stopped there, but

it didn t. The Moscow Mule gave way tothe Screwdriver, a mixture of orangejuice and vodka. The drink supposedlygot its name from oil rig workers whostirred it with their screwdrivers. The

Bullshot was the next big mixed drink.It s vodka mixed into bouillon-and if

you ve never tried it, you re missing agood thing.

As these drinks became popular,Americans discovered that they couldmix vodka with anything they likedfrom ginger beer to cola-and it wouldn tdetract from the taste or flavor. Allvodka did was give their favorite drink akick. Not too much later, vodka began toreplace the gin that America ns had beenputting into tonic water and martinis.The result was as tounding because froma modest 6,000 cases sold in 1939, therewere around 26 million cases of vodkasold in the U.S. last year. What thefigures are world-wide, I won t evenguess.

So you won t be left thinking that mixing vodka is purely an American phe-nomenon, rest assured that other parts of

•oes shaving burn your face? nd your

after-shave make it feel worse You need

Mennen Afta• after-shave and sk in conditioner.fta soothesand protects against the dry

chafing effects that sun wind and shavinghave o n your face.

Don tget burnedGetAlta.

the world have invented their own verypopular vodka cocktails.

For instance, in the Eastern bloccountries, vodka lovers enjoy an dbug ortwo when sun drops beneath their oil

wells. If you d like to make one, simplymix equal parts of club soda and plainyogurt in a large glass. Add a jigger of

vodka, a sprig of mint and a dash of salt.It s a ve ry refreshing summer night sdrink.

Vodka found its way in to Great Britain during the middle 1950s and movedrap idly into that bastion of Scotch-Scot

land. One reason people thought vodkabecame so popular in Scotland was that alot of Poles settled there after the war.Another reason was that vodka was theideal sy mbol of the younger generation sdesire to strike a blow for the ir independen ce from the old , settled way of life -

meaning drinking Scotch. Th ree of the

most popular vodka drinks to come outof England are the Black Cossack, WhiteShoulders, and the Rasputin. To make aBlack Cossack, you fill a glass with stoutand add a jigger of vodka to it. ARasputin is clam juice with a shot of

vodka, and a White Shoulders is a littlemore exo tic. In a blender mi x up one partof vodka, one part of heavy cream, and

one-half part of curacao. Pour overcracked ice.

When you shop for vodka, you re

going to fin d bottles of it that seem

look alike. Th ey may look alike , but takmy word for it, they are n talike. Firstall, you re going to find differences proo f. Vodka s proofs run all the wa

from 70 .5 to an undrinkable 140 proPolish vodka. The most popular prooare 80 to 100. You ll find, without quetion, that the leader is Smirnoff, anyou ll also find contemporary Russiafamous Stolichnaya. Between them th

vodka of old Russia and the vodka of thnew Russia you ll find as ma n

differe nt kinds and types of vodka as yohave patience to find. There

Wisniowka, a cherry flavored vodka, anZubrows ka, flavored and colored wiwi ld buffalo grass, both fro m PolanYou ll find Relska, a vodka that goback as far as 1721. Are they differefrom one ano ther? You better believe

The best way to demonstrate hovodkas differ among themselves ismake so me at home. You can , you knowIt s easy. Upfortunately , however, italso illegal. But if you d like to know howanyway , and alsoJJ.ow you can make spcial-flavored vodkas , send an SASEme with fifty cents a t 7 Wes t 14th SN.Y., N.Y. 10011 , and l ll send you bacthe information. Don t try to make ithome , no matter how easy it is, becausit s illegal and we ll both get in trouble

But until then , Na Zdorovie •

M R H 1 9 7 6 / 5



Golson continued from page 33

own file, who arranged Hunt's employment with the Mullen Company.ARGOSY: That brings us back to the

CIA-Hughes connection, since Mullen'spresident, Robert Bennett, took over theHughes account from O'Brien. What elsecan you tell us about the Mullen Company?

COLSON: t doesn't exist anymore. twas a CIA cover firm formed back in thelate 1950s by Robert Mullen, who was aspeechwriter for Eisenhower. He set

himself up in the "public relations" business with CIA backing. He represented

something ca lled the Free Cuba Commit

tee originally, and the Rotarians , whichwas an excellent source of internationalintelligence, and General Foods, with offices around the world where it would be

good industrial cover. Its primary function was CIA, and that's not disputable.It 's documented in the CIA's own files.Then , when its cover was blown, they

folded it up [in 1973] .But there's no question Hunt was put

there by Helms. In one CIA report ,Mullen is telling a CIA man named Martin Lukoskie," I was pressured into takingHunt, by Helms personally." There isalso a leiter from Helms to Mullen in the

file, in which they discuss how Hunt'ssalary was going to be arranged .

And the Mullen company's biggest account was Hughes, which we now knowwas the biggest contractor for the CIA

and han 1 • e Glomar Expia . ow the quest ion is, o was Bob

nnett serving?ARGOSY: Senate documents show tha

Bennett was in fact reporting regularly tothis Lukoskie, a CIA case officer. It'salso been speculated that Bennett mighthave been the source for the Washington

osr s exposes on Watergate- the " Doat" that Woodward an ostein

refeCOLSON: e , know one bit of information that Woodward and Bernstein attribute to "Deep Throat," which Ilearned by reading a CIA file-it

definitely came from Bennett. I alsoknow other information attributed to" Deep Throat" that I 'm sure came fromother people. From the style of one per

son 's speaking, I know who it came fromin the White House. I don't think there isa " Deep Throat." I think " Deep Throat"was a clever device by which Woodwardand Bernstein could create susp.ense intheir book. I think he's a fictitious(amalgam- made up of a whole lot ofpeople.ARGOSY: You keep referring to material you found in the CIA's own files. MayI ask how you got access to them?

COLSON: I can 't tell you.ARGOSY: But you read all the CIA fileson Watergate?COLSON: Well, all the ones I was able

56 W

to read. There were others, obviously. came from Bennett, who all through thisBut I saw what purported to be the period was reporting every two weeks to;.-Watergate files, which eventually went to CIA case officer Martin J. Lukoskie. I'm

the people up on Capitol Hill. sure the CIA knew more about it than weARGOSY: All right, let's recapitulate for did. The question again, why?a moment. We have, just prior to the ARGOSY: What about the allegationWatergate break-in, Hunt serving both that you ordered Hunt to break intothe White House and the Mullen Com- Arthur Bremer 's apartment after the

pany. We have the Mullen Company George Wallace shooting?serving as a CIA front and, through its COLSON: I didn 't. I called Hunt that

new president, Bennett, as the public re- night after I got home. We were curiouslations firm for Howard Hughes. to know why Bremer , from everythingCOLSON: Yes. and one of the facts IQ '"e knew , was doing what he was doing.covered b:t C'l.ll UQ S concerned a H lt a right-wing fanatic and were wetri2 in i \ t;ji;,J ;igua lil l eB ttrs;, going to ge t blamed? ·Was he a left-wingi where Howard Hughes was living at nut and would it come back from thatthe ume. lt was a secret trip never before end? Hunt said, "You'll be able to tell bydjsc qsm l lSOw wnv < < Ham go to the s tuff you find in his apartment." INicaragua? might have said to him , maybe I shouldtR O SY An equally good question is send you out there to check and find out

why Hunt did a lot of the things he's sup- what 's really in the guy's apartment.posed to have been ordered by you to do. Legitimately. The press were all out thereCOLSON: I didn't order many. already. But I don't think l did. All IARGOSY: What about his trip to see know is, I was talking to Hunt on one lineDita Bear d to find out what she was say- when the president called me on another'.

ing about the ITT scandal in 1972? I sa id to Howard, I'll ca ll you back, but ICOLSON: That was proposed by Bob didn't. The next day my secretary says,Bennet t: He didn't represent ITT or any- "Howard Hunt waited up all night forbody involved. Yet he provides a lawyer your call." And I sa id to myself, the

named Robin Fleming to be Dita Beard's stupid idiot, I didn 't want him to do anylawyer. He then suggests Hunt go out thing, I wanted to find out his opinion ofand interview her. Hunt comes to me and what was mo tivating Bremer. I never1 say, "G reat idea." Now what was the dere him to go out there, and obvious ly

CIA's interest in the Dita Beard episode? never ordered him to break into Bremer'sWell , remember that not only was her house-because at seven p.m . I had

memo about ITT leaked in the spring, but already issued the orders to Mark Feltso were all of the memos about ITT's in- [Associate Director of the FBI) that no

volvement with the CIA in Chile. And -one was to be allowed in or out of that

suddenly, Bob Bennett has an intense in- apartment. Felt said in .his affidavit that

teres\ in Dita Beard. the only reason Colson could 've wantedRGOSY: So, we're back to the Mullen to send Hunt into that apartment was to

C pany. get Hunt killed. Which, in hindsight, a lotC LSON: Yep . Same thing with Hunt's o f people probably would have thoughtt p to Chappaquiddick. Hunt called me was a good idea.

d said, "Bob Bennett has received a ARGOSY: But N ixon was really conmysterious call about what really hap- cerned about the Wallace shooting,p n ~ p with [Ted] Kennedy at Chappa- wasn't he ?quiddick, and I'm going to investigate it. COlSON: Oh , he sure was. He wasDo you want the information?" 1 said reallyconcerned about who was respons i- sure. I'd have said that about any ble, trying to get the FBI to investigateDemocrat to anybody who offered infor- that, and to protect Bremer's life becausemation to us. Hunt said, " I' ll have to get of the historic parallel when Lee Harveydisguise equipment from the CIA." I said Oswald was sho t.fine . t turns out that the guy he int er- ARGOSY: He thought the blame mightviewed was Clifton DeMott, who had be laid to the White House?worked for Bennett at the Department of COLSON: Exactly. Or the right wing

Transportation. This is another thing people , political parties that wanted tothat makes no sense. Why should Hunt help Nixon.

go through all the pains of calling me , ARGOSY: Several times in thethen going to the CIA and getting dis- transcripts of the White House tapes,guise equipment, when DeMott is ob- there's discussion about Hunt's seemingviously going to know that his old attempt to blackmail Nixon. And Nixon

employer is sending Hunt up to see him? talks often about the "can of worms"Yet Hunt used that as a pretext to go out he 's afraid Hunt could open. W)lat wasand get all his disguise equipment from that can of worms?

the CIA (including that used in future COLSON: That's another thing that just

covert operations) . And DeMott didn't absolutely fascinates me . I don 't know.really know anything new about Chappa- ARGOSY: The president never toldquiddick. you?

All these things Hunt did for me were COLSON: No. He also never explainedthings lze proposed, and the impetus what it was that he did to save Helms.



Remember in the June 23 [1972] tapewith Haldeman, the tape that was the

' sl1loking gun, he says, You got ahold of

Helms, we saved him . Boy , what we've

done for him. No, [ knew nothingabout it]; on February 13 , 1974, in a tapethat's never been introduced, I'm sayingl don 't think Hunt has anything thatcould cause us any problem at all.ARGOSY: Yet Nixon says on the tapesthat it goes back to the Bay of Pigs and

many things that would be harmful tothe White House, the CIA, and the nation to see opened up .COLSON: My guess is that Nixonknows there's a lot in the files that's asource of great embarrassment to theCIA. And that was his way of subtly saying, the CIA better cooperate or elsewe're going to unload all the Bay of Pigsstu ff publicly. Or it could go back to thefact that Nixon was the Eisenhower Administration's Action Officer for the Bayof Pigs invasion.ARGOSY: Could it have had somethingto do with the Kennedy assassination?COLSON: I doubt it. I really do. I don 't

think Hunt had anything to do with that.A lot of people who know Hunt well,myself included , believe that while he

talked a great game, he would be scaredto actually drug Jack Anderson or killanybody or do anything like that.

I've read his newspaper interviews of

late on this Jack Anderson thing and I'veseen three different versions. He backsaway from his allegations that I orderedhim to do anything. But I see a strain of

the novelist as you read the interviews.The story gets more colorful and moredramatic all the time. His Providence Jour-

n l interviews bear no resemblance to

what he told Time Magazine. I think theguy's written so many novels, I'm notsure that he can always sort it out.ARGOSY: What about the break-in of

the office of Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist? Does that fit into this web?COLSON: Sure. I think that wasbungled just the same way they bungledthe Watergate break-in. And it wasequally phony. Ellsberg's psychiatristsaid the burglars did, in fact examineEllsberg's psychiatric records. They werein an envelope outside the file case whenthe doctor came in. He never toldEllsberg because he didn't want to in -

crease his anxieties. Yet the Plumbers reported that they found nothing. t makesno sense.ARGOSY: One last thing about Hunt.He was quoted recently as admitting thatthe CIA once had an entire team trainedto carry ou t, among other things, assassination s. Did you know anythingwhile in the White House about CIAfore ign assassination plots?COLSON: I did not know that therewere foreign assassinations. But I alsowouldn't have been surprised to learnthere had been. I guess I knew about

Castro, come to think of i t Hunt told me

about that. t came up very casually. t

was mentioned there had been efforts todo that, and that they 'd done a psychological profile of Castro. He was justkind of regaling me with romantic spytales, and I don't remember the circumstances.ARGOSY: All right, let's assume that in1972 Bob Bennett of the Mullen Company was indeed using Hunt, through

you, for his own purposes. Yet inone

ofyour old memos, you describe Bennett asa trusted loyalist and a good friend of

the White House.COLSON: Yeah. That's the way a gooddouble agent works.ARGOSY: Had you known Bennett personally ?COLSON: I had met him several times.He was always coming around volunteering to help , which I realize now was an

attempt to ingratiate himself. Which he

succeeded in doing. He also succeeded ina very calculated plan to disseminatesmear stuff about me in the press.ARGOSY: You mean Bennett con

sciously set out to portray you as the instigator of all Hunt's deeds? When didthat happen ?COLSON: This is all in the CIA files. It

was begun right after the Watergatebreak-in and went on for over a year. Amemo in the files dated March 1, 1973,and signed by agent Eric W. Eisenstadt,lays out in great detail all the articles thatBennett was successfully plan ting on me.t goes on to say that this course of con

duct was approved by the then director

of Central Intelligence, James Schlesinger. And attached to this top-secretfile were some of the clippings. t never

was explained to me why.ARGOSY: You have no idea why thiswas done?

COLSON: Well, ostensibly to divert attention from the Mullen Company relationship with the CIA. On the surface, Iguess you can look at it and say, Colsonis the patsy. Set him up, then everybodywill be satisfied-because they've got toget someone and then they won't look atus. There's a suggestion in there thatBennett had made a deal with a lot of

newspapers. If he fed them informationabout Colson, they would not investigatethe CIA's relationship with the Mullen

Company-and therefore its relationship] with Watergate.ARGOSY: Did the Mullen Companyhave a Hughes tie before Bennett cameto them?COLSON: Apparently no t. Apparentlythat was arranged when he came. I usearranged advisedly, because the CIA

files show they talked about increasingthe Hughes retainer to pay for more CIAcovert activities.ARGOSY: What can you tell us aboutHughes' interest in satellite communications ?

COLSON: That was all CIA intelligencestuff. Also the communications revolution of the future is in satellites . He whocontrols satellites will control the flow of

all ideas in twenty years. Cable TV is allby satellite now. Whoever is in the driver's seat will have tremendous power.ARGOSY: How big a role do you thinkthe Hughes organization already plays inthe government?COLSON: I think it is much more ex

tensive than anyone knows. What we'reseeing are scattered bi ts and pieces. Iwould love to know the whole s tory. Idoubt that anyone ever really wil l. I'veheard one theory that there is no HowardHughes, that it's really a headquarters ofthe Mafia's operation; tha t they ownedBebe Rebozo, they got their hooks intoNixon early , and, of course, that ties intothe overlap of the CIA and the Mob.ARGOSY: Wouldn't that mean, in effect, that the Mob, perhaps in alliancewith the CIA, is the big ruling force inthis country?COLSON: Don't say that's my theory,but I've heard it expounded as a

possibility and, of course, it is . Sure, inone of the Mob books recently , the re's aprediction that they would control thepresident elected in 1976. Or by 1976.And don't forget tha t the Mob had a tremendous interest in the gambling casinosin Cuba. There was a real identity of interests between the CIA and the Mob inknocking off Castro. But they've had lots

of common interests. You also see effortsby the Mob to get close to the government, like Kennedy and his gal, withSam Giancana. I don 't want to makeserious charges lightly, there's been toomuch of that lately , but there are things

that are just unanswered. You have towonder where the Mob begins , the Agen y ends, and Hughes picks up.ARGOSY: All the revelations come outabout the CIA from the Church Committee. How much of that was known to youin the White House?COLSON: A lot of it . Everything I saidin that 1974 interview with Dick Bast hascome true- including the Glomar Explorer and Ps ychologi cal AssessmentsIncorporated being a CIA cover firm .ARGOSY: Do you think there 's still alot more to come out about what the

CIA's really been doing?

COLSON: Sure do, but I'm afraid theymay not get it. The CIA's done a verygood job of throwing people off on

tangents. Like the original expose storyabout domestic spying by SeymourHersh of the New York Times. t was just

a throwaway. Hersh had access to stuff

that was a lot more dynamite than that,which he didn't use. I always figured thatwas a sop throw that out, then getRockefeller to head a comm ission of people who were apologists for the CIA, givethe Agency a nice clean bill of health andput an end to all the rumors going around.

M R H 1976 /57



ARGOSY: It 's been alleged that there

was CIA infiltration of other governmentdepartments- Transportation, Commerce , Office of Management and

Budget.COLSON: That's a fact. I knew something about it. I knew they were staffing,for example, the Bureau of Narcotics and

Dangerous Drugs. All the internationaloperations were being monitored

through the CIA .ARGOSY: Let's digress for a moment tothe FBI. Are their abuses as flagrant?COLSON: That 's a whole other tangent.The abuse of the FBI was the way inwhich Hoover compiled information onU .S. citizens and used it for his own purposes. I had seen some of the thingsHoover had squirreled away in his littleoffice. I lost a lot of respect for Hooverwhen I discovered the way he used them.ARGOSY: ewsweek magazine mentions a file Hoover kept on John Kenned y, which includes the charge that

Kennedy had an affair during World War

Two with a German spy . What didHoover try to do with that material?COLSON: Keep himself as director of

the FBI.ARGOSY : He actually used it that way?COLSON: Sure. He had something oneverybody. I don't know that he ever had

to come right out and say, f you don 'tcontinue me as director, I'm going to dothi s or that. I don't thing he had to. Everybody was acutely aware of the way h ekept things, and you h ad to assume hehad s tuff on you. There's no one whogets to be president that the FBI couldn'thave accumulated something about,somewhere along the line.

ARGOSY: Did he make anything elseavailable to you at the White House

about the Kennedys?

COLSON: Not about the Ken nedys. Atleast not to me . He didn' t make that report available to me, he gave it to other

people at the White House. That stuff

would be shown to me normall y, as political adviser to the pres ident.ARGOSY: Would you go so far as to callwhat Hoover was doing blackmail?COLSON: I don't like to characterizepeople's actions that way. But it ce rtainlyhad elements of that in it. t was veryoffensive to me .

ARGOSY: Getting back to the CIA,we re you aware that the law partner ofJames St. Clair, Nixon 's Watergate lawyer , was a former CIA e mployee?COLSON: I learned about that when Iwas in prison. I discovered that he [St.Clai rj was also counsel to a CIA firm.ARGOSY: Did that make yoususpicious?

COLSON: A little bit. But look at PaulO'Brien, counsel for CREEP during thisperiod. His law firm was maintaining aCIA agent abroad and had an undercovercontact through the CIA during Watergate. It 's in the [Howard] Bake r repo rt.

58/ ...

ARGOSY: So the CIA connection justkeeps comin g and coming.COLSON: Almost everywhere you lookin Watergate, you'll find a CIA connection . That's what scares me .ARGOSY: How far into it have youdelved? Or have you wanted to delve in

that far?COLSON: Oh, I've wanted to delve,but you just keep going down different

roads. I'll give you a perfect example ofwhat you could get paranoid about. Mylawyers called me on Monday, December8th, and said, The Pike Committee staff

wants to interview you. They want toknow if you have a list of newsmen whowere also on the payroll of the CIA. Isaid I'd check my files. Th at WednesdayI was in New York. In Washington mywife wen t ou t to dinner with a friend,and came home to find our house brokeninto-just silver and jewelry taken. Ichecked my files and couldn't find the

list. But I don't know that I everhad that

list. Anyway, it was a perfect burglary.The police said there were th ings about it

that made them suspicious as to whetherit was a legitimate break-in. So if youwant to be paranoid, you could be

paranoid. I'm not paranoid, I hope.

ARGOSY: If indeed there were a plot tooust Nixon, what still remains murky isthe motive. Could you venture to guesswhy the CIA and/or Hughes would havewan ted to get rid of him?COLSON: I can think of lots o f motives.Let me preface this by saying, all th is iswild speculation . I do n 't have a theorythat would st and any kind of test. ButNixon was a guy who operated in utter

seclusion and privacy, cutting out the

normal foreign policy-making apparatus,the normal channels of State and

Defense and In telligence . Why is it, forexample, that the Joi nt Chiefs had a cou-

ple of guys on the National SecurityCouncil staff pilfering documents fromKissinger 's briefcase and taking stuff out

of wastebaskets? If the Joint Ch iefswould spy on Nixon, why couldn't theCIA? They would have the same motives.

You've got to remember that thewhole top management of the CIABissell, Colby, Helms a re what you'dcall co ld-war liberals. Very liberal on

domestic politics, hard-line on foreign

affa irs. Nixon was exac tly the opposite.Moreover, he didn't have much use forthe C IA. You had a president disregarding and ignoring the old-line bureaucracy.He 's cut ting them out of the action. He'sdoing things they considered absolutelyheretical going to the Soviet Union and

China, arms agreements, detente. I think

it was very logical for the CIA to want topenetrate the White House and try to es

tablish their own means of intelligence,since they were being cut out of the normal chain of command. f you want my

most plausible theory, they planted theirpeople and then suddenly someone-

their own people, maybe Hughes, maybeBennett-leads tho se people into illegal,bizarre adventures. How's the CIA goiniJto cover it ? The record of its cover-up ismuch more thorough than the WhiteHouse ever did on Watergate . In the process of covering themselves , they under

cut Nixon.ARGOSY: You once remarked that Nixon was out of his mind over the CIA

and Pentagon roles in Watergate.COLSON: I think when he discoveredthe extent of the CIA's involvement inJanuary of 1974 and the extent towhich Bennett had been programmingHunt-he was justifiably outraged and

wanted to do so mething about it.ARGOSY: How did Nixon find out?COLSON: He fo und out a lo t of it fromme, when I told him what I'd discoveredin the CIA files.ARGOSY: What did Nixon want?COLSON: He wanted to expose it. In

fact , in several conversations I thoughthe was on the verge of doing it. Then be

backed away from it. And about a month

later , he didn't even want to talk about itwith me. But one day after I talked toNi xon about what I'd learned , [Alexander] Haig called me five minutes after I'dleft the White House [Haig was Nixon'sChief of Staff] . This was January 201974. Haig wanted me to come down tothe office. I didn't want to, so 1 went tohis house. He s pent four hours pumpingme for what I knew. Then at th e end , he

said, We ll, we can 't do anything withthis , Chuck , because if the president'sgo ing to be impeached, better he go downhimself than take the whole in telligenceappa ra tus with him. I was led to con

clude that Nixon was finally talked out ofit by Haig .ARGOSY: Haig was also the military'scontact man for the CIA in 1962 and

1963. Did you become suspicious aboutwho Haig might really be working for.?COLSON: Yeah, I suppose I was. But Ihave to say now th at I rea lly believe Haigwas acting honorably and serving onlyone master. I don't believe he was ever

p art of a CIA plot to harm Nixon. I think

his problem wa s having been part of that

[CIA] establishment, so he had th oseloyalties and didn 't want to rock the boat ,which I believed was necessa ry to do to

get to the truth . Long before, and this ison the tapes, I was urging Nixon in everyconversation to tell the tru th and disposeof Watergate.ARGOSY: In a novel soon to be published by John Ehrlichman, it's been reported that someone who very muchresembles Henry Kissinger was put closeto the president by the CIA. You yourselfhave said that Kissinger, along with Haig,was ins trumental in stopping Nixonfrom lifting the veil off the intelligencecommunity.COLSON: Yes, and also in encouraging

continued on page 7



. . .

Colson continued from page 58

him to resign from the presidency.JlRGOSY: What do you think of

Ehrlichman's novelistic license as it relates to the truth?COLSON: I think that John probablycomes as close to the truth as anybody.He and I had long talks about this, andJohn has told me that much of what he's

writing is my speculation.

ARGOSY: You have also been quoted assaying that Nixon once wondered outloud if Gerald Ford could controlKissinger. Does Kissinger need to be controlled?COLSON: Well, I haven't had any personal contact with Henry in three years.But he needed Nixon very badly. Nixonwas a great steadying influence on Henry. Nixon was really the architect and

Henry was the engineer. I knowKissinger could never have done alonewhat Nixon and Kissinger did together.You have to remember that Henry was apart of that same foreign policy cold-war

ideologythat

I described earlier-verypalsy-walsy with all the characters in theintelligence establishment. He was partof that in cadre. Nixon never reallytrusted Henry, and vice versa. t was sortof an accommodation relationship.ARGOSY: Did Kissinger 's closeness tothe intelligence community cause themistrust?COLSON: That was clearly one of thereasons for the lack of trust.ARGOSY: What were some others?COLSON: Oh , Henry's affrnity for giving stuff to newspapers. Also, some of

his friends that Nixon was very distrustful of-Bob McNamara, Averell

Harriman, people like that.ARGOSY: As Watergate progressed,what change did you see in Nixon? Wasit a steady deterioration, as has been described?COLSON: Yeah, I think so. He was consumed by it. He never could understandit, and it was gradually tearing him down.In lots of conversations and visits in1974, I could tell he was getting to wherehe could trust fewer and fewer people.Fatigue was very evident. I know he washaving trouble sleeping, he told me that.And the more embattled he got, the moreindecisive he became and the more he

was losing his strength and capacity.t

was really insidious the way you couldsee it sort of eroding the guy. Corroding'him. By the way, he is a remarkably rugged man. t took less of a toll than Iwould have expected.ARGOSY: Why did he finally throw inthe towel? Had he been resigned to it forsome time?COLSON: I think he had been fearful itwas going to come for quite awhile. Heeventually got to the place where he

knew he was defeated, and if he keptgoing much longer the country would be

in such turmoil it could only be disastrous-to the country and to him personally. Everybody was in favor of himstepping down. His whole White Househad turned against him. I was in favor of

it in April when the tapes came u -

very reluctantly and sadly, but I was.He's the best mind I've ever known and

had very noble goals for the country,even though people don 't believe thatnow . Unfortunately, his moral code

wasn't very good when it came to tellingthe truth. What ultimately trapped himwere his own lies-and the fact that he 'dtaped things and was stuck with the tapes.ARGOSY: Did you ever tape any of

your conversations in the White House?COLSON: Oh yeah, quite a number.Just to keep a record . A lot of peoplewould call in with poll data and statistics;I'd just take it all down. And usuallywhen I talked to the press, I'd use a taperecorder. I never taped anyone inside the .White House. Ehrlichman used to tape alot, and Kissinger, and Haldeman. JohnDean taped a little. t was not uncom

mon.t

was done for protection, not anyill intent.ARGOSY: What role did Bebe Rebozoplay in Nixon's life?COLSON: The dog you talk to when youfeel like talking and you need somebody.He's a convivial, pleasant guy, and totallytrustworthy.ARGOSY: Among Nixon's WhiteHouse staff, who was closest to him ?COLSON: He had different kinds of relationships with each of us . Sometimes,on a personal basis, he was closest to me.But now I discover lots of things he nevertold me about. I guess Haldeman was theclosest; I probably came next. He had

fond feelings about John Mitchell, but hewas drifting away from him in the lasttwo years before Watergate. I think he

was becoming distrustful of John's judgment of things.ARGOSY: Of course, you've been described time and again, despite whatyou've revealed here, as the master of

dirty tricks. How do you react to that?

COLSON: I've read a hundred stories.Like everything else in this whole bizarretime, part true, part untrue, most in between, and some totally false. I neverheard of [Donald) Segretti until his picture appeared in the Wasfrington Post I

knew nothing about the Watergate in advance and did not prepare the Enemies

List -John Dean did. A lot of the horrors that I took the heat for, I not onlyhad nothing to do with, I dido t evenknow about. I can't ever catch up with allthe charges, and there's no point in even

trying.ARGOSY: What about the Gemstone

plan and all its illegalities?COlSON: Never heard of Gemstonethen. People forget that Magruder and Inever got along, nor did Mitchell and IWe were heads of opposing camps.

ARGOSY: t feels like there must havebeen an incredible, baroque power struggle going on in the White House-if people were doing all these weird thingsbehind each other's backs.COLSON: I suspect that every WhiteHouse has been like that , where rival fac-tions are vying for power. It was that wayin the Kennedy years, and probably it'sgoing on now between the [BobJ Hartman and [Donald] Rumsfeld people.

ARGOSY: Did a lot of what happenedin the Nixon years come out of the aurasurrounding the Kent State shootings,the fear of domestic violence in thiscountry?COLSON: t sure did. There was a legitimate fear about whether we could reallyhold the country together. And this led todistorted views of things and lots of excesses. t grew out of the insecurities wehad about the country and the government when we came to power.ARGOSY: How did Gerald Ford windup as Nixon's vice-president?COLSON: I don't' honestly know. I

didn't write about this in my book, because it would have been unfair of me tospeculate. I think he was chosen becauseNixon figured he was good enough tohold the job and get confirmed, but not

good enough for the Congress to ever. want to put him in as president. I think

he was picked as impeachment insurance.ARGOSY: How do you compare his performance as president with Nixon's ?COLSON: As a convicted felon, I can' tvote this year. I have the luxury of doingother things than politics .ARGOSY: What about Nelson Rockefeller? How do you see his role in the re

port on CIA domestic activities?COLSON: Well, it was a whitewash.And I don't know what his role was. The

question is his relationship withKissinger. But I don't want to speculate.ARGOSY: Are you still in touch withmany of the men you worked with in theWhite House?COLSON: YesARGOSY: Are there any you considerto be enemies or to whom you aren'tspeaking at present?COLSON: No. I've tried to heal as manywounds as possible.ARGOSY: What about John Dean, why

did he tell everything to the Senate?COLSON: Partly to save his neck, partlyin conscience.ARGOSY: And have you stayed intouch with him, too?COLSON: We were in prison together.You put the past behind you when you'rejust a couple of cons . I've become friendswith Dean again. We don 't talk about alot of things. I believe what's missing inour society is the spirit of forgiveness.I've forgiven Dean and he's forgiven me.We can look at one another now as twohuman beings trying to rebuild our lives.

MARCH 1976/73



erythi.ng, and nothing being sacred, is adirect result of Watergate, and kind of

• ~ There's no end to it, until you'vetorn down everything there is .ARGOSY: Do you think some institu-tions, like the CIA, need to be torndown?COLSON: Yes , but it's two separateissues. Something does need to be done,but the process that's going on s un-healthy. Let's straighten it out and get on

with the business of running a clean in-telligence operation.AR GOSY: How else would you get at it?COLSON: If you had a president whowas willing to o the right thing, he coulddo it himself without causing Congress to

drag it all through the mud. If the aim of

the people on the Hill was to reform theCIA, that I would rejoice over. But if theaim is simply more of this masochisticprocess of tearing ourselves apart, withconfidence in the country and govern-ment gradually eroding, then that's bad.ARGOSY: What about your book? Willit go deeply into Watergate and all the

issues we've touched upon?COLSON: Well, it's partly about Water-gate, obviously. You can't tell the story ofwhat happened to me in the last fewyears without talking about that. It's a lot

about prison, the agony of being lWatergate defendant and the decision Ihad to make to plead guilty. It's a storyreally of my conversion to acceptance of

Jesus Christ. I've written it, hoping it willbe an uplifting book-to help other men

find meaning in life. I d like to think thatout of all of Watergate, there could comea redeeming message.ARGOSY: Can you tell us briefly how

your religious conversion happened ?COlSON: It's a very complicated story.After the '72 elections, I experienced aperiod when I felt a certain inner dead-ness. I was returning to private life, wasbeginning to wonder what life was allabout, and I had a very dear friend who'dhad a conversion during the four years Iwas in the White House. He helped me

look at what was happening in a verydark period of my life: he showed mehow to find a relationship with Godthrough Christ. It has been the mostbeautiful experience ever.

ARGOSY: From a religious standpoint,how do you see these times? Are they

prophesied?COLSON: Yes , I think so. From atheological standpoint, I can see a lot of

s igns of end times, when things go intotribulation, before the coming of Christ.Only God, of course, knows the timingperiod. I see it as a time of real emptinessin the. country. I believe the only thingthat will bring America back is a spiritualrevival. We have to go back in utterhumility to what we were in the begin-ning-a nation under God. We're with-out moorings today and I don't thinkman can change it. Only God can. •



- ·-___..;: . : . .. .: •

··; Jack . Anderson

COLSON'S RAY GUN

/ 'VAS TI:\'GTO:">. J Jr. ; Prentice, i n n o · n:s earr.h and

Former o r ~ s i d e n t i a l aide Chn1· es Col- clcsign chief fCl' JE t<:o Inc .Jdco already

son once ; o r : ~ i d c : : e d r - r • ?

olt 4 \\":.lS 1 n a r k e t } n r nh;tal detector l lsing,..,.e. Buck ~ ' P < : ~ . : . : • · · u e . g a u ~ i n . : ~ t " ; i p h

1 e ou se to erase the tapetl conver- Prentice told ;);ovel, and confirmed to

sations of Richnrd :\ 'bcc l. u s, that he h<1.cl huilt a p r o L o l ~ · p e <.::1:1-

sbch a " ~ [ i s ~ i o n : Impos5ihle·· ·would non and co:1ld r::onsti·uct an opo:r::ttional

ha\e wip d O\ l t the evillr.nce on the one fm · S:?5,0tl0 to .';30 GOO . Pren t ice's

White HoLLoe tapes which leu to Nixon's view:; \':as thc,t ~ i ~ : c e ~ h e tajJes belonged

resignation. c.;Json. however. CO:'ltenus to the President, ;:here wot: :tl be '.C/

he never s ~ : ? r i o u s l y poncll'rcrJ plttting the cr ime in e r n . ~ i n ~ ; thf:'m if acting

scheme into adion. for the President, OKd i t.

·Despite this denial, Coison did meet The Jctco sp\•d c.list ,; r c; ,v up a s.imple

tw ice with ? 'L resca1:ch co11- plan for the ' t l • : - : : a u s s i n ~ cannon," us

sulta'Ql;, U ;1.nd dtscussed i n ~ S capacitors, a swit·:h. a parabolic ret he possibility of using an experimental fleeter and a special : - . r : : a t t ~ s i s t a n coil.

" d e - g a u . s s i n . ~ cannon" to fire a gl;antic The e lectronic arti cry p :t Cf: could be

ma2-netir. pube at t::e \\'hite House tape housed in a van. or r.1ou nr.ed in a light

sto;age r ~ o m . A rcu ? h d e ~ i g n of . the plane or helicopter.ray gu 1, n:J.nH c.l after a ma :netic ni0as- 0:-: ; . r ; : ~ r c h ~ 1 ;o:c,:el wrote Colson th ;J:

urcn:en t , . : ; : ~ s even dr<Jwn up. he , - . - o ~ \ 1 • "t'on•:ard b:: ~ : : 1 nrl <:Otll'i.;;· t h ~" " ··el tallied i1y +he .kncv:n facts on thl' E l Pa so erasure

\Vhi 11se and 1 1 1 a g n ~ i z i n g all the mc.ttel'," the code na 'JlC for the ··de·~ ..... . C ' . . W s a n . . ....t9) d ·. us h ~ n .. -gausscr'' scheme.

th rough friends. I t \':as something that Shortlv thereafter, the inclus[rial CO•l ·

be said would fh·e th1·ee b l o ~ k s sultant flew to V/ ;• shir.gton again and

* * * t : ~ l l c t ; d t,) one of this ;::rc.o.'s bes t known

' ~ a n el trgp i o u c t r o ~ i c s men. _.;Jian Br:l, pres ident oOekt · C o n m e r i n t c : l E c > : t : i ~ ~ : ? and S c u ~ · i t y

: : : : : : : ; ~ ~ : ~ i ~ ~ - · threw cold watct· on r.hc 0 n .· saying that it ,.,,.a'3 •·J iy" ~ n d "imprar.-

: . ~ n . he ~ 2 . . i d , tc-1d r::" 1 t ~ : t t .... : ·j> ~ ~ ' : 'at the \Vt,ite House and the CIA "could

eall.5e the President's grief." Novel men;

tL · -. ... c r ~ p c : s i r t 7

C?"nnon" r l 1d( · .. . • : ~ i ~ ' i ~ · ~ ~ - i ~ t o it. c · ~ j ~s· _. ,,._,::, .:> :: :: g;;,\·e the con,;ultant "no

· ) : ; l ' J . r l t . ' t· So·: l , :· : : ~ · ~ r . obviously thou.:5ht he

h ad a r<.;:m:ate fr om C o l : ; o : - ~ H" jo·Jrneycd. to Ei Paso, Tex. , and spoke with

Since one . part of the scheme was to

bombard the CIA, the irresistible jolt

of · n " . ~ , ~ . ; t i ~ n 1 ~ : , t ? G t - c · : ~ c ~ · ::sfi 1·1S on u s s ~ a n <L'1-i C h i : 1 e s ~ a : ; t ~ _ l t sand othe r espl ocage and security mat-

ters .-No\'el '\vent h ack to Colson's office

with his r ~ p o t i . ::-iovel's a.ssessm,:nt

was tha t hiding in the he avy woods

near the CIA, m· " d e - r , ; . : w . ~ s i : ~ ~ . .· tapes from t h ~ tank-': a ' 1 : : ~were in transp ort, of.frr f d :>. • •

c h < - n e r ~ of success th(ln r . 1 a ~ ; - , r : : Lhumhal'ding the CIA or t"l·; ',\"nite H

rom :t p:ane.Ettt a..3 :Xovcl r c c ; ~ . l l it . t:-:.c::: - . i ~

de cided not to pu rsHe the x · ~o( its danger to nationat · : ::>.n•J eomputcrs neat· the t;tr.::ec : ; t p

Co lson scoffs at the i·::ea t:'latma .t;nNic beam evct· c::tmc that c l · Jde\·elopment. "I JaugheJ a t :;:: · Jc

"It was a little bit of c - ~ r : 1 k re

Prc:'lident NLxon, o w e n ~ r . h?.J

tilal Co lson was a sucl;c:· im· t ~ tra r -out ideas. In the t r a n c : ; c r i p ~ s , ::

said Colson "lo;·cs the ac::o:1

son would do anything."

* * *Bohhy Baker, the former ~ . • t l : t t '

',\'ho went to prison in a cc:c '::·.cc c idal of the early 19GOs, s <:G rn :J

mot:e th an half cf a hook t 1m ·.\ ;

h:l rr ass some p1·cscnt S c : l : :Xow a c c e ~ s f u l b u s i n c : : ~ : · :

insists he is n't writing ;>: ·· : . ···about those who c o n d c m ; ~ , I · .·

•h:ed, the bcol< \ ' : i l l co m il: :1

anecdotcs.L ,bout prominent

lll'CS.

But the book will cha:··;.;Goldwater lR·Ariz.·r. ':? : : '· · _;:,.

"':\fr. Clean," twisted a ; · : ~ : : :·

funds whcm he was tll;: o . ~ ·: '· : . : '

;ne campaign chairm;In.

BJJ.:er \vill also chi . :.: '. ~ t : :-:· ';.;post c of p o l i t i c ~ I re:' :l : r• . ,;

LD-:">.C.'. m· \ ' o t : •• ::. ·- : -: -: ;,· '•:

. : :··. :-:n i:1 · : ~Baker will al.so poin t out that

Carl Curtis CR-Neb.), wh.o 5aw no gc : : ~

:n~ 5 : • J r · ~ ' ~ :

.... . . , ' " : · ~

~ s n c : U out ~ , - . · < . 1 ' ~ 1 : · .

· :olnd in the . ; o : - : < ; . · r ~ , t i : ; : : · : : : ~ : r , a t ~ s Be1Xcr ca .:;c.

The former S E " 1 ~ te ho:; . _ , . ~ ' ( ; : ·to pub ish his bcoi' ; ; , ~ : : : ; : - •:0 ; ..li

Watergate diea down.

charles colson

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