DTH: There was a kvetch in the Daily Tar Heel last month that said, “I’ l l give Carol Folt this: she sends one hell of an email, but that’s about it.” Now, I think that’s unfair, but that is what people write in the Daily Tar Heel, and I think that it’s reflective of a kind of perception of you as a person who would, you know, invest a whole lot into PR. But just talking to people at the Daily Tar Heel, I get the sense that you do a lot of things behind the scenes, that you don’t exactly say to students. So, if you do have any opinions to it, what would you say to that sort of perception? Folt: I think I’d answer in a very different way. What I can say is that when I came in . . . what my philosophy was, first of all, that I need to hire a new team. And I don’t know if students don’t keep track of that, but . . . of the 18 top administrators that were here when Holden Thorp began, there are only three still here. So a large part of what I’ve been doing was hiring and developing a leadership team . . . But what I’m very excited about is what people don’t talk about all the time, because I think we’re doing it well: we’re bringing people in, and we’re keeping it going, yet we’re also completely transforming the leadership team. And, interestingly — I’m very proud of the people we hire — but almost all of them are nontraditional. Many came from very different backgrounds. They weren’t necessarily working in higher ed or working in the more traditional areas, but instead bringing a whole set of expertise that I think is really valuable . . . So, as a Chancellor, these are very important for me. I do a lot of that work, which doesn’t necessarily develop in a conversation with students . . .

I see why it wouldn’t necessarily be so observable . . . The (issue) that’s the most obvious to students would be the relationship with the state. And I thought, coming in here, you’ll have a new chancellor, a completely new team. We have also a new Board of Governors, and most of them either started when I started, or maybe a year before, but almost all of the new Board of Governors and half the Board of Trustees were new. So the Trustees and I both developed a real strategy where we thought, “We need to spend at least a year when we’re going around and try to meet everyone.” So . . . we have good relations with the legislature, and in particular, good relationships with the governor. So when the governor, who I’ve talked to many times, was talking about entrepreneurship, we discussed, in quite a lot of detail, all of the people here that work in on it. So he set up a task force. He brings in the Carolina people. So I think a lot of what I do has really been involved in developing those relationships with the senior leadership, and making sure that Carolina, our university, has a big and important voice in it. DTH: I think that you are definitely are doing those things, but I had to speak to a senior editor at the Daily Tar Heel to come

to conclusive evidence that you were advocating for UNC’s centers before the Board of Governors. So my question is, if you asked the average UNC student what the Chancellor’s doing — does she stand up to the Board of Governors? — What would you say? Folt: Well let me ask you another question — I actually think that you’re casting it in a pretty funny light. I keep pretty good track of my schedule — I think I’m probably out at student events more than any other Chancellor. I’m there all the time. And actually, I made a real pact when I started — I said I was going to make sure students were speaking at every Board of Trustees meeting. We’ve had students active in every Board of Trustees meeting. They’re serving broadly on committees. I’ve been extremely deeply actively involved in developing Carolina Conversations, speaking out at the sexual assault panels — I mean, I think the problem isn’t so much that I’m not doing those things, I think we aren’t as effective at absolutely at letting people know, because I don’t think it’s the DTH’s job, or even maybe their idea, that they need to tell what I’m doing. So if I wait for them to tell it, maybe that’s the problem — that it’ll never be told. I think that we’re out there all the time, yet I think that it’s that vehicle for keeping every student involved is very hard, because they don’t know. So students have suggested to me to open a Twitter feed — I did that. Students suggested do a number of open houses — I did that. Students said, “let’s try to get more conversations” — we set it up. So I’ve been working across constituencies, to try and say, how do we get students to be involved when we’ve got 29,000 students, and emails are such a shallow way to communicate. I think that’s the bigger issue is not what I’m doing, which I know has been really extensive over all these years — it’s communicating it. DTH: Going back to role of the Chancellor in relation to the Board of Governors: Obviously, we’re in a time right now where a lot of students are protesting what the Board of Governors is doing, especially the closing down of the Center for Poverty. Now do you see the role of Chancellor as being someone who ought to be a representative of the community, or do you see yourself as a person who needs to make everything work, between the students and the upper administration? Folt: That’s actually a really great question — I love that question. I don’t think I’m there just as the representative of the voice of everybody, and, truthfully, there is not one voice. So if you ever thought that I had the power to go and say that I represented everyone, it wouldn’t be true. That doesn’t happen . . . in every one of these discussions, I can tell you, as many statements as I get on one side, I get on the other. I think my goal is to try to make this institution be as strong and powerful and

excellent as possible . . . In some ways, I think what I’m actually supposed to do is step above all that clamor. I mean, it would be a real mistake if the Chancellor felt that if every time someone was agitated about something, they had to microfilm that agitation. That is a recipe for disastrous leadership. I need to be aware of it. I need to know what people really think about it. But my job is to have the long view. I’m the person that’s supposed to be helping us get through this time, and people are upset on both sides. I need to be finding out — how do we stay to our mission and our moral compass? There are very bright lines that you would never cross. I would absolutely be out there in a very public way speaking for (those lines), but there are also times where what I really need to be doing is getting (the BOG’s) permission and helping us move forward. DTH: So, considering that we’re in an environment right now where Tom Ross was basically just asked to step down — and a lot of students would use the word “fired” — do you think that if you were to publicly take a stand against the Board of Governors — and I think you just gave very good reasons why, in many situations, that maybe wouldn’t be the best idea — but do you think that, one, if you did that that, you would be at risk of losing your job or being asked to step down, and, two, do you think taking a public stance against them would even be the best idea? Folt: Well, I’m not making decisions to the extent of which I’m worried about my job. That’s isn’t what I think about. That isn’t why I took the job. I took it because I thought I was coming to the greatest public research university in America. That I was coming in at a time where everyone’s having real scrutiny, and I wanted to be part of an institution that looked at every one of those issues straight in the eye and wasn’t afraid of them. That embraced them, and thought, “How can we be part of a solution?” So that’s really what motivates me. And with respect to my relationship with the Board of Governors, I’m very active working with them on all sorts of things that are in our best interest. You know, I worked with them on centers and institutes, and I did speak quite forcefully there, and everyone that worked at the Board of Governors would tell you that. And I’m very proud of it, because I think it was important, but what I’m even more proud of is the way that we were able to help the centers and institutes make their own case. And in fact, I believe that we went from a likely 15 million dollar cut to zero cut of any finances, and, in fact, one center that they think that they might want to see increased came out of that conversation. And that’s because I think that we were very respectful. I think we worked with the Board and we said, “Okay, we’ve got questions.” I’m not going to say that we can’t have questions. In fact, I’m going to try to get (the Board) so much

information that (they’re) going to understand what value (the centers) bring. DTH: Was that the Women’s Center? Folt: That was the Women’s Center, but they looked at many of our centers and were very complimentary to them, and they had legitimate questions. We hadn’t reviewed all the centers as we had promised to — five years ago, apparently, before I was here. So if you are part of a system that is allowed to ask things, you have to allow them to ask them. Then, if you’re productive, and people trust you, and they think you’re going to give them an honest answer, you give them the full and honest answer, which is exactly what I think we did. And centers and institutes — they came out pretty strong for it, and I disagreed with them publicly on their decision about the Poverty Center. I think that went about as . . . well, I always want more. I would have liked all of them to — I want more resources, I want everything to be positive. But I felt that lots of positive learning came out of that. DTH: What forum did you publicly disagree with them on? Folt: I spoke at the Board of Governors . . . you have to realize, none of the other schools were offering about any kind of criticism, but we were, and I was . . . it was difficult at that moment. Of course, I wrote two letters to the public saying I disagree with them. But I think the most important part for us in having a relationship with the Board of Governors is that we have to have a relationship with the Board of Governors. I think there’s a lot of polarized rhetoric everywhere. I think there’s polarized rhetoric about the Board of Governors, too. And so one of my most important goals isn’t simply helping the Board of Governors understand Carolina. I’m really trying to help Carolina help the system and the state. And I also want, where I can, to help the university understand more about what the Board of Governors is trying to do. So at the same time, they did the first summit I’ve ever seen, and they tried to look at K-12 education, and they did a fantastic summit. Never been done before. They brought all the deans of all the educations schools, all the arts and sciences. They ran an amazing summit that said, “We are the great universities in North Carolina — what are we going to do to start helping the K-12 problem?” So there’s stuff happening at the Board of Governors that is not covered, just like there’s stuff I do. DTH: I mean there are things happening at the Board of Governors, and — Folt: That’s a pretty big one.

DTH: But I think that what people are most concerned about is the most negative things that are coming out of that, especially the Center for Poverty closing. Folt: Yes, people talk about the negative, but they talk about the negative in many areas. So one area that’s been very important to me, talking to the Board of Governors, and also the legislature, was that at a time when we might have such tough budget. There have been many years where we were also being restricted as to what we could even do with the budget we did have. So I spent much of my time last year talking with the legislature and the Board of Governors about the need for flexibility, and as a result we did get flexibility, and we did get raises into our faculty, and they haven’t had them for quite a while. I mean, that’s another aspect of the things we’re all working with — the need to develop the relationships to talk through those complicated issues, why that’s so important. DTH: What’s your opinion on the recently proposed bil l that will require UNC faculty to teach four classes per semester? Folt: I’m against it. I’m completely against that. And I think that, if that really looks like it has legs, we’ll spend a lot of time really doing much more effective job in explaining what faculty do, but I think there are many people that understand that it wouldn’t make sense in keeping this to be a great institution, and I think many people have been speaking out against it . . . My first thought is, I need to go talk to people and explain to them what faculty do. My job has to be an educator. Let’s get down there, let’s talk about it, and sometimes bills do come up in the legislature that are actually pulled back by the very person that put them forward — I have no idea about that one — but because they find out more information. I always love it. I always feel that I’ve succeeded if I have my cell phone number out there to a bunch of legislatures, and they get a bill, and they’re trying out something that seems kind of weird, that they’d call me and ask me that. And I am getting more of those calls, too. So, that’s where I’d start looking on that one. DTH: Would you consider yourself a Democrat or a Republican or neither? Folt: I’m an independent. DTH: Independent? Kind of — Folt: Been registered independent three years.

DTH: Do you sort of lean more towards liberal-ish or conservative? Folt: I’m Independent. DTH: Just neither one? Folt: You know, I don’t feel like I’d ever want to tell you what my politics are because, quite frankly, that’s my right. And I would hope none of my students ever knew what my politics are because I really like to teach from that position that you look at both sides of the issue, that you really understand — have some empathy — try to understand that, and that’s really how I’d rather live my life and also my professional life. DTH: Understandable. Alright, cool, well, it’s been a pleasure. Folt: And if you have ideas on how we can get more of the words out, the better, because you know, I thought about sending emails, but students always say “No, I don’t read your emails.” But we debate this all the time. DTH: I think, personally, just speaking as a student — when Thorp was here, when students were just kind of talking to him, they would get the impression that he was just saying whatever was on his mind. I think that got him into a little bit of trouble after a while, with the whole athletic scandal, and maybe he should have been a little bit more careful in those regards. And so a lot of it just took place interpersonally. But it’s definitely a challenge. Folt: I think you might be a little bit remiss if you think students’ impressions are captured by the editorial board of the DTH. DTH: No, I don’t think that at all. Folt: Because I think that if you’re actually talking to most of the students I talk to, their impression would not be what you’re — of me not talking to them pretty straightforwardly. And trying not to really answer them. So, again, I think that’s another part of it, having your own opinion of what students think. You won’t get that unless you have those relationships and talk to people. But what I think is most important is what are we really trying to do to capture student voice — are we trying to add to students’ ability to have input into decisions? Are we trying to get them a better public forum? Are we really trying to be most responsive to the issues that are most important to them at this moment? How we teach classes? That’s what we really, in a way, have to be judged on. What do we actually produce? How are we doing it? And

that’s what’s really the most important thing in the end, is are we advancing the issues that are most important to students? And that’s harder to assess, but it’s what we’re really trying to do, is trying to figure out the best way to do that. DTH: Well, yeah. And, sometimes, students are just impossible to please. Folt: Well, that’s okay. It wouldn’t really be a university if everyone agrees.