Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru(Y Cofnod Swyddogol)

The National Assembly for Wales(The Official Record)

Dydd Mawrth 6 Gorffennaf 1999

Tuesday 6 July 1999

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CynnwysContents

2 Anerchiad gan Ei Ardderchowgrwydd Mr Philip Lader,Llysgennad Unol Daleithiau AmericaAddress by His Excellency Mr Philip Lader,Ambassador of the United States of America

12 Datganiad gan y LlywyddStatement by the Presiding Officer

12 Cwestiynau i’r Prif YsgrifennyddQuestions to the First Secretary

23 Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement

27 Gofal PlantChildcare

72 Dadl Fer ar Brofion Llygaid am DdimShort Debate on Free Eye Tests

81 Atebion i Gwestiynau nas cyrhaeddwyd yn y Sesiwn LlawnAnswers to Questions not reached in Plenary

Yn y golofn chwith, cofnodwyd y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y Siambr.Yn y golofn dde, cynhwyswyd cyfieithiad o’r areithiau hynny.

In the left-hand column, the proceedings are recorded in the language in which they werespoken in the Chamber. In the right-hand column, a translation of those speeches has been

included.

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Anerchiad gan Ei Ardderchowgrwydd Mr Philip Lader,Llysgennad Unol Daleithiau America

Address by His Excellency Mr Philip Lader,Ambassador of the United States of America

The Presiding Officer: It is a particulardelight for me to invite the Ambassador ofthe United States of America to address theAssembly. You are, sir, our first internationalguest to address the Assembly. Indeed, apartfrom Her Majesty the Queen and the Princeof Wales, you are the first person to addressthe assembled Members in the Chamber.Croeso i chi yma—a warm welcome to you.

Y Llywydd: Hyfrydwch arbennig i mi ywgwahodd Llysgennad Unol DaleithiauAmerica i annerch y Cynulliad. Chi, syr,yw’r gwestai rhyngwladol cyntaf i annerch yCynulliad. Yn wir, heblaw am Ei Mawrhydiy Frenhines a Thywysog Cymru, chi yw’rcyntaf i annerch cynulliad o’r Aelodau yn ySiambr. Croeso i chi yma—a warm welcometo you.

Mr Philip Lader: Presiding Officer, FirstSecretary, Assembly Members, ladies andgentlemen, it is of course a great honour forme to be here, particularly at this time. Byyour leave:

Mr Philip Lader: Lywydd, BrifYsgrifennydd, Aelodau’r Cynulliad,foneddigion a boneddigesau, mae wrth gwrsyn anrhydedd mawr i mi fod yma, ynenwedig ar hyn o bryd. Gyda’ch cennad:

Mae hi mor braf bod yn ôl yng Nghymruunwaith eto. Ymhell cyn imi gael y fraint ogynrychioli fy ngwlad yn y Deyrnas Unedig,fe ddeuthum o Dde Carolina i Gymru arwyliau gyda’m gwraig a’m merched, a hydyn oed ar ôl imi adael y swydd hon yr wyf yngobeithio’n fawr y gallaf dreulio llawer mwyo amser da yng Nghymru.

It is a great joy to be back in Wales onceagain. Long before I had the honour torepresent my country in the United Kingdom,I came from South Carolina to Wales onholiday with my wife and daughters, andeven after I leave this post I sincerely hopethat I will be able to spend more happy timesin Wales.

The Presiding Officer: That was almost asgood as the Prince of Wales.

Y Llywydd: Yr oedd hynny bron cystal âThywysog Cymru.

Mr Philip Lader: The true diplomat—hesaid ‘almost’.

Mr Philip Lader: Y gwir ddiplomydd—feddywedodd ‘bron’.

Little did I dream, when I first visited Walesas a student of British constitutional historyat Oxford, that 30 years later I would returnin this capacity to visit this Assembly. TheBritish constitution continues to evolve, andyou, the Members of the first WelshAssembly in 600 years are reshaping it.

Ychydig a feddyliais, pan ymwelais gyntaf âChymru fel un oedd yn efrydydd yn hanescyfansoddiadol Prydain yn Rhydychen, ydychwelwn ymhen 30 mlynedd yn rhinweddy swydd hon i ymweld â’r Cynulliad hwn.Mae’r cyfansoddiad Prydeinig yn parhau iddatblygu, ac yr ydych chi, Aelodau’rCynulliad Cymreig cyntaf ers 600 mlyneddyn ei ailffurfio.

Last year, I had the privilege of walking fromLand’s End to John O’Groats. When I got toCarlisle, which is, as you all know, near theScottish border, this woman came out, sawme and said, ‘Great day for walking.’ I

Llynedd, cefais y fraint o gerdded o Ben TirCernyw i Benrhyn Cothnais. Pan gyrhaeddaisGaerliwelydd, sydd, fel y gwyddoch i gyd,ger y ffin â’r Alban, fe ddaeth benyw allan,a’m gweld a dweud wrthyf, ‘Diwrnod da i

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agreed. She asked, ‘Where did you start?’We Americans are not necessarily known forour modesty and so, somewhat smugly, Isaid, ‘Land’s End’, to which she responded,‘That’s a good morning’s walk.’

gerdded.’ Cytunais. Gofynnodd i mi, ‘Ymmhle y dechreusoch?’ Nid ydym ni’rAmericanwyr yn adnabyddus o reidrwydd amein gwyleidd-dra ac felly, fe ddywedais, ynhunangyfiawn braidd, ‘Pen Tir Cernyw’, a’ihateb hi oedd, ‘Mae hynny’n fore da o waithcerdded.’

In establishing this Assembly in the contextof your remarkable history, Wales has comemuch further than a good morning’s walk.But the reason I am here today, and feel soprivileged, is to assure you that as youcontinue on your way as an Assembly, theUnited States of America is with you on thisvery important journey.

Drwy sefydlu’r Cynulliad hwn yng nghyd-destun eich hanes hynod, fe ddaeth Cymrulawer pellach na bore da o waith cerdded.Ond y rheswm pam yr wyf yma heddiw, acyn teimlo mor freintiedig, yw i roi sicrwyddichi wrth ichi barhau ar eich ffordd felCynulliad, fod Unol Daleithiau Americagyda chi ar y daith dra phwysig hon.

When I walked Offa’s Dyke last year, Ireflected on the fact that Welsh Americanconnections are apparent in countlessdimensions. We are told that a prince, OwainGwynedd, reached America in the 12thcentury and, as a result, historians studyinglong-extinct native American tribes havediscovered Welsh words and customs.

Pan gerddais ar hyd Clawdd Offa llynedd,bûm yn myfyrio ynghylch y ffaith bod ycysylltiadau rhwng Cymru ac America i’wgweld mewn dimensiynau dirifedi. Feddywedir wrthym fod tywysog, OwainGwynedd, wedi cyrraedd America yn y 12fedganrif ac, o ganlyniad, mae haneswyr a fu’nastudio llwythau brodorol Americanaiddsydd wedi hen ddarfod wedi darganfodgeiriau Cymraeg ac arferion Cymreig.

Some say that America was actually namedafter a Welshman, Richard Amerik, awealthy Glamorgan customs officer inBristol in the late 15th century who investedin the second voyage of John Cabot, the firstEuropean to land on American soil in 1497.

Fe ddywed rhai fod America wedi ei henwiar ôl Cymro o Forgannwg, Richard Amerik,swyddog tollau cefnog ym Mryste yn hwyryn y 15fed ganrif a fuddsoddodd yn ailfordaith John Cabot, yr Ewropead cyntaf ilanio ar dir America yn 1497.

Not many Americans acknowledge the factthat William Penn wanted to namePennsylvania ‘New Wales’, but insteadnamed it after the Welsh word for head—pen, as in Penrith, and not after himself, asmost Americans believe. Consequently, theWelsh American society of Philadelphia isthe oldest ethnic organisation of its kind inAmerica.

Nid oes llawer o Americaniaid sy’ncydnabod y ffaith bod William Penn am alwPennsylvania’n ‘Gymru Newydd’, ond ei fodyn lle hynny wedi ei enwi ar ôl y gairCymraeg—pen, fel yn Penrith, ac nid ar ei ôlef ei hun, fel y cred y rhan fwyaf oAmericanwyr. O ganlyniad, cymdeithasGymreig Americanaidd Philadelphia yw’rmudiad ethnig hynaf o’i fath yn Amerca.

In Llanberis, there is a slate memorial to theWelshmen who signed the Declaration ofIndependence. In Scranton, Pennsylvania,there is a roadside marker commemoratingthe 125th anniversary of the 1869 Avondalemine disaster.

Yn Llanberis, mae cofeb o lechfaen i’rCymry a arwyddodd y Datganiad oAnnibyniaeth. Yn Scranton, Pennsylvania,mae carreg ar fin y ffordd sy’n coffáutrychineb cloddfa Avondale yn 1869 ar ôl125 o flynyddoedd.

Compared with Ireland, Scotland and O gymharu ag Iwerddon, yr Alban a Lloegr,

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England however, only a tiny number ofWelsh people went to America and yet theinfluence of the Welsh in the new world hasbeen out of proportion to their numbers.Seventeen of the signers of the Declarationof Independence were of Welsh decent. Ourchief justice of the Supreme Court, JohnMarshall, who shaped our constitution, wasWelsh; Thomas Jefferson’s family came, asyou know, from Snowdonia; a Welshman,George Jones, co-founded The New YorkTimes; a Welsh American named OliverEvans invented the self-propelled automobilewith a steam-powered engine and the greatcivil war author Harriet Beecher Stowe wasWelsh.

fodd bynnag, nifer fechan iawn o Gymry aaeth i America ac eto bu dylanwad y Cymryyn y byd newydd yn anghymesur â’uniferoedd. Yr oedd dau ar bymtheg o’r rhai aarwyddodd y Datganiad o Annibyniaeth odras Gymreig. Yr oedd ein prif ynad yn yGoruchaf Lys, John Marshall, a luniodd eincyfansoddiad, yn Gymro; yr oedd teuluThomas Jefferson yn hanu o Eryri, fel ygwyddoch; Cymro, George Jones, agydsefydlodd The New York Times;Americanwr Cymreig o’r enw Oliver Evans addyfeisiodd y car hunanyredig â pheiriant ayrrir gan ager ac yr oedd yr awdur mawr o’rRhyfel Cartref Harriet Beecher Stowe ynGymraes.

Brynmawr college has a Welsh name andYale, Harvard and Brown were founded byWelshmen. Elihu Yale is buried in St Giles’church in Wrexham. The great architectFrank Lloyd Wright, the fiery labour leader,John Llewellyn Lewis, the muck-rakingsatirist Sinclair Lewis and the President ofthe Confederacy Jefferson Davis were allWelsh. More recently, you well know thecontributions to arts and entertainment inAmerica of Welshmen such as D. W. Griffiththe director, Shirley Bassey, AnthonyHopkins, Tom Jones, Richard Burton, BobHope and Howard Stringer. Just a few weeksago, my wife and I were reminded, when wewere with her, of another prominentAmerican’s passionate interest in her Welshdecent—Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Enw Cymraeg sydd ar goleg Brynmawr asefydlwyd Yale, Harvard a Brown ganGymry. Claddwyd Elihu Yale yn eglwysGiles yn Wrecsam. Yr oedd y pensaer mawrFrank Lloyd Wright, yr arweinydd llafurtanbaid John Llewellyn Lewis, y dychanwrstraegar Sinclair Lewis ac ArlywyddCynghrair Taleithiau’r De Jefferson Davis ollyn Gymry. Yn ddiweddarach, fe wyddoch yniawn am y cyfraniadau i’r celfyddydau acadloniant yn America gan Gymry fel D.W.Griffith y cyfarwyddwr, Shirley Bassey,Anthony Hopkins, Tom Jones, RichardBurton, Bob Hope a Howard Stringer. Ondychydig wythnosau’n ôl, cafodd fy ngwraig aminnau ein hatgoffa, pan oeddem gyda hi, oddiddordeb angerddol Americanes enwogarall yn ei thras Gymreig—Hillary RodhamClinton.

In my office back in London, the new deputychief of mission, my chief operating officer,is now a fellow by the name of GlynDavies—he is very proud of his Welshheritage. I am surrounded by you!

Yn fy swyddfa yn Llundain, dirprwybennaeth newydd y genhadaeth, fy mrifswyddog gweithredu, yn awr yw cyfaill o’renw Glyn Davies—mae’n ymfalchïo’n fawryn ei dreftadaeth Gymreig. Yr ydych o’mcwmpas ym mhob man!

But in trying to bring some of the old countryto the new world, the Welsh immigrants lefttheir mark all across America—Bangor,Maine; Cardiff, New Jersey, and the listcontinues. By the 1850s there were regularWelsh music festivals in my country—songand poetry with which you would befamiliar. By 1870, more than 100 Welshbooks, pamphlets, hymnals, collected

Drwy geisio dod â rhywfaint o’r hen wlad i’rbyd newydd, fe adawodd y mewnfudwyr oGymry eu hôl ym mhob rhan o America—Bangor, Maine; Cardiff, New Jersey, acmae’r rhestr yn mynd ymlaen. Erbyn y1850au yr oedd gwyliau cerdd Cymraeg yncael eu cynnal yn rheolaidd yn fy ngwlad—cerddi a chaneuon y byddech yn gyfarwydd âhwy. Erbyn 1870, yr oedd dros 100 o lyfrau,

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sermons and literary magazines werepublished. A dozen Welsh languagenewspapers came and went. In the 1890s—around the peak of Welsh immigration toAmerica—there were more than 500dedicated Welsh congregations of worship.

pamffledi, llyfrau emynau, casgliadaupregethau a chylchgronau Cymraeg yn caeleu cyhoeddi. Dechreuodd a darfu am ddwsino bapurau newydd Cymraeg. Yn y 1890au—o gwmpas brig y mewnfudiad o Gymru iAmerica—yr oedd dros 500 ogynulleidfaoedd o addolwyr Cymraeg selog.

My own home state of South Carolina is agood example. The South Carolina town ofSociety Hill in Darlington county wasoriginally called Welsh Neck in colonialdays. In fact, its current name, Society Hill,was derived from one of the oldest and mostdistinguished organisations of its kind inAmerica, the St David’s Society. The civic-minded residents of Welsh Neck, who hadcome from Cardigan and Pembrokeshire in1703 by way of William Penn’s colony, alsofounded St David’s Academy in 1778—apioneer education institution. Their WelshNeck Baptist church, built in 1738, is one ofthe oldest in the South, and their library wasa beacon of enlightenment throughout theante-bellum period.

Mae fy nhalaith enedigol De Carolina ynenghraifft dda. Enw gwreiddiol tref SocietyHill yn swydd Darlington yn Ne Carolina yny dyddiau trefedigaethol oedd Welsh Neck.Mewn gwirionedd, mae ei enw presennol,Society Hill, yn deillio o un o’r cymdeithasauhynaf a mwyaf nodedig o’i bath yn America,y St David’s Society. Yr oedd trigoliondinasgar Welsh Neck, a ddaethai o Aberteifia Sir Benfro yn 1703 drwy wladfa WilliamPenn, hefyd wedi sefydlu’r St David’sAcademy yn 1778—sefydliad addysgolarloesol. Eglwys Fedyddwyr Welsh Neck, agodwyd ganddynt yn 1738, yw un o’r hynafyn y De, ac yr oedd eu llyfrgell yn llusern ooleuni drwy’r cyfnod cyn y Rhyfel Cartref.

In a way—and I use my state just as oneexample—the Welsh have helped to createthe American ideology, the republicandoctrine of personal independence and civicvirtue.

Mewn ffordd—ac nid wyf ond yn defnyddiofy nhalaith i fel un enghraifft, mae’r Cymrywedi helpu i greu’r syniadaethAmericanaidd, yr athrawiaeth weriniaethol oannibyniaeth bersonol a rhinwedd ddinesig.

Over the 200 years since our independence,our 50 states have become laboratories ofdemocracy. With this new Assembly, Walesmay become another important laboratory ofdemocracy, dealing with Welsh problems,finding Welsh opportunities and fashioningWelsh solutions. I am reminded of what TomStoppard said:

Dros y 200 mlynedd ers ennill hannibyniaeth,daeth ein taleithiau’n labordai iddemocratiaeth. Gyda’r Cynulliad newyddhwn, gallai Cymru ddod yn labordy pwysigarall i ddemocratiaeth, gan ymdrin âphroblemau Cymreig, canfod cyfleoeddCymreig a llunio atebion Cymreig. Fe ddaw’rhyn a ddywedodd Tom Stoppard i gof:

‘It’s not the voting that’s democracy, it’s thecounting’.

‘Nid y pleidleisio sy’n gwneuddemocratiaeth, ond y cyfrif pleidleisiau’.

I might add respectfully, it is not theestablishment of the institution, it is theexecution which proves democracy.

Fe allwn ychwanegu, yn wylaidd, nad creusefydliad, ond gweithredu yw’r hyn sy’nprofi democratiaeth.

Yesterday was an extraordinary day for me.Here in Wales, on the same day, I went to theancient gardens of Aberglasney, the gardenlost in time. A few hours later, I visited theMillennium Stadium, the most advanced

Yr oedd ddoe’n ddiwrnod arbennig i mi.Yma yng Nghymru, ar yr un diwrnod,euthum i erddi hynafol Aberglasney, yr ardda aethai i ddifancoll. Ychydig oriau wedyn,ymwelais â Stadiwm y Mileniwm,

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technology construction, fit for a newcentury. A garden lost in time, a stadiumlooking forward to a new century.

adeiladwaith a godwyd â’r dechnolegddiweddaraf, yn addas i ganrif newydd.Gardd a aethai i ddifancoll, a stadiwm sy’nedrych ymlaen i ganrif newydd.

I would suggest that on no subject related tothis Assembly do we Americans have greaterinterest than in how you balance themandates of cultural preservation andeconomic development. Promotion ofeconomic development is part of your remit.As you well know, the Assembly is the onlyrepresentative body in Europe with astatutory duty to consult business. As aformer businessman, I hope you will takeseriously this responsibility and opportunity.

Hoffwn awgrymu nad oes yr un pwnc sy’ngysylltiedig â’r Cynulliad hwn y mae gennymni Americanwyr fwy o ddiddordeb ynddona’r modd y byddwch yn cydbwysomandadau cadwraeth ddiwylliannol adatblygu economaidd. Mae hybu datblygueconomaidd yn rhan o’ch cylch gorchwyl.Fel y gwyddoch yn iawn, y Cynulliad yw’runig gorff cynrychioladol yn Ewrop achanddo ddyletswydd statudol i ymgynghoriâ busnes. Fel cyn-ŵr busnes, hyderaf ybyddwch o ddifrif ynghylch y cyfrifoldeb a’rcyfle hwn.

Last night, I was privileged with your FirstSecretary, Rhodri Morgan and othersamongst you, to take part in the launch of thenew Wales North-American BusinessCouncil. My message to them and to you issimply this: we Americans stand ready toassist in the continued economicdevelopment of Wales, as I trust we alreadyhave. However, we see in this a balancebetween inward investment, in which theWelsh Development Agency has been rathersuccessful, and new business formation andgrowth.

Neithiwr, cefais y fraint gyda’ch PrifYsgrifennydd, Rhodri Morgan ac eraill yneich mysg, o gymryd rhan yn lansio CyngorBusnes Cymru Gogledd-America. Y negessydd gennyf iddynt hwy ac i chi, yn syml, ywhyn: yr ydym ni Americanwyr yn barod ohyd i helpu yn natblygiad economaiddparhaus Cymru, fel y gwnaethom eisoes,gobeithio. Fodd bynnag, fe welwn yn hynnygydbwysedd rhwng buddsoddi o’r tu allan, ybu Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, yn eithafllwyddiannus ynddo, a ffurfio a thyfubusnesau newydd.

You know all the American businesses thathave already discovered the advantages ofsetting up shop in Wales. Since 1983, UScapital expenditure in Wales has totalled£4.6 billion. It has created 22,000 new jobsand safeguarded a further 26,000 jobs thatwere threatened. There are already 143American companies with significantinvestments in Wales: GE, Ford, 3M, DowCorning, Kelloggs, Raytheon, Texaco, BankOne, International Rectifier, among others.

Fe wyddoch am yr holl fusnesauAmericanaidd sydd eisoes wedi darganfodmanteision ymsefydlu yng Nghymru. Ers1983, cyfanswm gwariant cyfalaf UDA yngNghymru yw £4.6 biliwn. Creodd 22,000 oswyddi newydd a diogelodd 26,000 o swyddipellach oedd dan fygythiad. Eisoes mae 143o gwmnïau Americanaidd â buddsoddiadausylweddol yng Nghymru: GE, Ford, 3M,Dow Corning, Kelloggs, Raytheon, Texaco,Bank One, International Rectifier, ymysgeraill.

We Americans encourage this Assembly tocontinue to work with trades unions, localauthorities and the City to maintain anenvironment in which Wales continues to bea primary target for American investment.However, we also take the liberty ofencouraging you to look to America as to

Yr ydym ni Americanwyr yn annog yCynulliad hwn i barhau i weithio gydagundebau llafur, awdurdodau lleol a’r Ddinas igynnal amgylchedd lle y bydd Cymru o hydyn brif darged i fuddsoddi o America. Foddbynnag, yr ydym hefyd yn mentro’ch annog iedrych tuag at America o ran yr hyn a

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what we have done right and what we havedone wrong in fostering enterprise.

wnaethom yn iawn a’r hyn a wnaethom o’i lewrth feithrin mentergarwch.

America today, if I can take just a moment toseem even more immodest, has had thelongest peacetime economic expansion in ourhistory. We have the lowest unemploymentin 41 years, the lowest core inflation rate inthree decades, and the highest homeownership rate in our country’s history.

Mae America heddiw, os gallaf gymrydeiliad i ymddangos yn llai anwylaidd byth,wedi profi’r ehangu economaidd hwyaf ynamser heddwch yn ein hanes. Mae gennym ydiweithdra isaf mewn 41 mlynedd, y gyfraddchwyddiant craidd isaf mewn tri degawd, a’rgyfradd uchaf o ran perchenogaeth ar dai ynhanes ein gwlad.

Why? A significant reason is the fact thatsince 1990, 70 per cent of the net new jobs inthe United States have come from newbusinesses. Since 1993, 18 million new jobshave been created in the United States, 92per cent of which have been in the privatesector. Last year, 2 million new businesseswere formed by Americans under the age of30 and 6 per cent of American adults everyday are in some stage of starting their ownbusiness. In 1995, the last year for which wehave such statistics, 13 per cent of allAmerican workers were employed bycompanies that did not even exist in 1990.This is not by accident and so I hope that, asyou work with the Wales North-AmericanBusiness Council, the trades unions and theuniversities, this Assembly will makepossible opportunities for internships, public-private financing agencies, universitylinkages and voluntary sector associationwith many of our American colleagues.

Pam? Un rheswm arwyddocaol yw’r ffaithbod 70 y cant o’r swyddi newydd clir yn yrUnol Daleithiau, ers 1990, wedi dod ofusnesau newydd. Ers 1993, crewyd 18miliwn o swyddi newydd yn yr UnolDaleithiau, 92 y cant ohonynt yn y sectorpreifat. Llynedd, ffurfiwyd 2 filiwn ofusnesau newydd gan Americanwyr o dan 30oed a phob dydd bydd 6 cant o Americanwyrmewn oed yn y broses o gychwyn eubusnesau eu hunain. Yn 1995, y flwyddynddiwethaf y mae gennym ystadegau ar eichyfer, yr oedd 13 y cant o holl weithwyrAmerica wedi eu cyflogi gan gwmnïau nadoeddent hyd yn oed yn bod yn 1990. Niddrwy ddamwaith y digwyddodd hyn ac fellyhyderaf, wrth ichi weithio gyda ChyngorBusnes Cymru Gogledd-America, yr undebaullafur a’r prifysgolion, y bydd y Cynulliadhwn yn darparu cyfleoedd ar gyfer swyddipreswyl, asiantaethau ariannu cyhoeddus-preifat, cysylltiadau â phrifysgolion achysylltiad drwy’r sector gwirfoddol â llawero’n cyd-weithwyr Americanaidd.

This enterprise infrastructure consists of aprofusion of experienced managers willing totake risks, early-stage venture capital andactive angels networks of investors. Itincludes wellsprings of new technologies andnew business ideas, schools and universities.It must have lawyers, bankers, accountantsand marketing specialists who are willing towork with entrepreneurs. It should havestock markets that welcome entrepreneursand, especially important, the regulatory, taxand education framework that fosters newbusiness formation and growth.

Mae’r isadeiledd menter hwn yn cynnwys lluo reolwyr profiadol sy’n barod i fentro,cyfalaf menter cynnar a rhwydweithiau ofuddsoddwyr gwarchodol gweithgar. Mae’ncynnwys tarddleoedd technolegau newydd asyniadau busnes newydd, ysgolion aphrifysgolion. Rhaid iddo wrth gyfreithwyr,bancwyr, cyfrifwyr ac arbenigwyr marchnatasy’n barod i weithio gydag entrepreneuriaid.Dylai fod â marchnadoedd stoc sy’ncroesawu entrepreneuriaid ac, yn arbennig obwysig, y fframwaith o reoleiddio, trethu acaddysgu sy’n hybu ffurfiant a thwf busnesaunewydd.

You and I may have as much difficulty Fe allech chi a minnau ei chael yr un mor

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understanding some of these ‘fastcompanies’ as I have in understanding yourlanguage: pharmacogenomics, asymmetricdigital subscriber lines, fluorescent DNAsequencing. But all of that is in Wales todayand we must understand that whateverdistinctions still remain between left andright, politician and businessman, day-traderand City banker, today they are being blurredby the enterprise spirit.

anodd i ddeall rhai o’r ‘cwmnïau cyflym’ hynag ydyw i mi ddeall eich iaith chi:ffarmacogenomeg, llinellau tanysgrifwyrdigidol anghymesur, dilyniannu fflworolau arDNA. Ond fe geir hyn oll yng Nghymruheddiw a rhaid inni ddeall, pa bynnagwahaniaethau sy’n bod o hyd rhwng y de a’rchwith, y gwleidydd a’r dyn busnes, tstondinwr marchnad a’r banciwr yn yDdinas, eu bod yn cael eu cymylu bellachdrwy ysbryd mentergarwch.

We Americans need to learn from you: howyou have balanced, and how you willcontinue to balance, heritage and prosperity;how simultaneously you will address culturalaspirations and material needs.

Mae angen i ni Americanwyr ddysgu oddiwrthych chi: sut yr ydych wedi cydbwysotreftadaeth a ffyniant, a sut y byddwch ynparhau i wneud hynny; sut y byddwch ynymdrin â dyheadau diwylliannol acanghenion materol yr un pryd.

Governing, in the American experience, hasbeen found never to be easy. The formerGovernor of New York, Mario Cuomo, said:‘We campaign in poetry; we govern inprose.’

Ni chafwyd erioed fod llywodraethu yn bethhawdd, yn ôl y profiad yn America.Dywedodd cyn-Lywodraethwr EfrogNewydd, Mario Cuomo: ‘Byddwn ynymgyrchu mewn barddoniaeth; byddwn ynllywodraethu mewn rhyddiaith.’

There are difficult decisions ahead for you:ensuring equal participation in the benefits ofprosperity for both north and south, rural andurban; full access to quality health care; acurriculum that reflects a bilingual andbicultural nation; how to save rural schools;how to promote Welsh development withoutcompromising Welsh culture.

Mae yna benderfyniadau anodd o’ch blaen:sicrhau cyfranogi cyfartal ym manteisionffyniant gan y gogledd a’r de, yr ardaloeddgwledig a’r ardaloedd trefol; mynediadcyflawn at ofal iechyd o ansawdd da;cwricwlwm sy’n adlewyrchu cenedl ac iddiddwy iaith a dau ddiwylliant; sut i achubysgolion gwledig; sut i hybu datblygiadCymru heb beryglu ei diwylliant.

We cannot let politics do the work ofeconomics. That is why I took this occasionto emphasise how we Americans think yourrole will be essential to forging the cultural,political and, especially, the business tiesbetween our two countries. It is an excitingtime to be Welsh. Just ask Cerys Matthews,the Manic Street Preachers or Alun Michael.

Ni allwn adael i wleidyddiaeth gyflawnigwaith economeg. Dyna pam y manteisiais aryr achlysur hwn i bwysleisio’r modd yr ydymni Americanwyr yn credu y bydd eich rôl ynhanfodol wrth ffurfio’r cysylltiadaudiwylliannol, gwleidyddol ac, yn arbennig, ycysylltiadau busnes rhwng ein dwy wlad.Mae’n adeg gyffrous i fod yn Gymry. Nidoes ond rhaid gofyn i Cerys Matthews, yManic Street Preachers neu Alun Michael.

However, I learned last year in that walkfrom Land’s End to John O’Groats the truthof the Spanish proverb:

Fodd bynnag, fe ddysgais ar y daith honno oBen Tir Cernyw i Benrhyn Cothnaiswirionedd y ddihareb Sbaeneg:

‘There are no roads: roads are made bywalking.’

‘Nid oes ffyrdd: fe wneir ffyrdd drwygerdded.’

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Know that, however uncertain the path, theWelsh and we Americans walk together. Andwe can walk in confidence, knowing that weare in the company of trusted friends.

Gwybyddwch, pa mor ansicr bynnag y bo’rllwybr, y bydd y Cymry a ninnauAmericanwyr yn cydgerdded. A gallwngerdded yn hyderus, gan wybod ein bod yngnghwmni cyfeillion triw.

The Presiding Officer: On behalf of theAssembly, I call the First Secretary to thankthe Ambassador.

Y Llywydd: A ran y Cynulliad, galwaf ar yPrif Ysgrifennydd i ddiolch i’r Llysgennad.

The First Secretary: This is an opportunityfor the Ambassador to make a second entryinto the Chamber because his first was sowelcome to the Assembly.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Mae hyn yn gyfle i’rLlysgennad ddod i’r Siambr yr eildrooherwydd yr oedd cymaint o groeso iddo gany Cynulliad y tro cyntaf.

Mae’n bleser mawr gennyf ddiolch iLysgennad America am ei bresenoldeb ymaheddiw, ei anerchiad i’r Cynulliad ac am eigefnogaeth i’r cysylltiad rhwng pobl fusnesyn yr Unol Daleithiau a Chymru.

It is a great pleasure to thank the AmericanAmbassador for his presence here today, hisaddress to the Assembly and his support forthe strong association between businesspeople in the United States and Wales.

You said that you came here as a student ofBritish constitutional history. I hope that youhave enjoyed contributing to Welshconstitutional history by becoming the firstAmbassador to speak to the Assembly andhonouring this bilingual body by speaking inWelsh as well as English.

Fe ddywedsoch ichi ddod yma fel efrydyddyn hanes cyfansoddiadol Prydain. Gobeithioichi fwynhau cyfrannu i hanescyfansoddiadol Cymru fel y Llysgennadcyntaf i annerch y Cynulliad a drwyanrhydeddu’r corff dwyieithog hwn drwysiarad yn Gymraeg yn ogystal â Saesneg.

You referred to the natural modesty ofUnited States citizens and spoke generouslyof the Welsh contribution to America. Weare sometimes too modest to remember thator we tend to overlook it. We should respectand honour the contribution of Americancompanies that employ 35,000 people inWales such as Ford, Bank One, TRW,Northern Telecom, General Electric,Monsanto, Dow Corning, NewbridgeNetworks and International Rectifier. Thislong list keeps growing. Since May 1997,North American-owned companies in Waleshave promised projects involving capitalinvestments of £304 million, the creation of4,207 new jobs and 1,955 safeguarded jobs.That is good reason for us to welcome andseek to develop the contacts between Walesand the United States.

Yr ydych wedi cyfeirio at wyleidd-dranaturiol dinasyddion yr Unol Daleithiau acwedi sôn yn haelfrydig am gyfraniad yCymry i America. Yr ydym ni weithiau’n rhywylaidd i gofio hynny neu’n tueddu i’wanghofio. Fe ddylem barchu ac anrhydedducyfraniad cwmnïau Americanaidd sy’ncyflogi 35,000 o bobl yng Nghymru fel Ford,Bank One, TRW, Northern Telecom, GeneralElectric, Monsanto, Dow Corning,Newbridge Networks ac InternationalRectifier. Mae’r rhestr faith hon yn dal idyfu. Ers Mai 1997, mae cwmnïau yngNghymru sy’n eiddo i rai yng NgogleddAmerica wedi addo projectau sy’n golygubuddsoddiadau cyfalaf o £304 miliwn, creu4,207 o swyddi newydd a diogelu 1,955 oswyddi. Mae hynny’n rheswm da innigroesawu a cheisio datblygu cysylltiadaurhwng Cymru a’r Unol Daleithiau.

I am delighted that you so positively reflect Hyfrydwch i mi yw eich bod yn adlewyrchu

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the warmth of feeling between Wales andAmerica, which I saw reflected when on aninward investment mission in March to theeast coast of America and Canada, and in thewelcome that Peter Hain received recently.You mentioned Howard Stringer, who refersto himself as Welsh-born, always seeing theopportunity to make connections back home.It was tremendous to see him and manyothers along with yourself at the museumwhen we had our special daycommemorating the opening of theAssembly.

cynhesrwydd y teimladau rhwng Cymru acAmerica, rhywbeth a welais hefyd panoeddwn ar daith ym mis Mawrth i ddenubuddsoddiad ar arfordir dwyreiniol Americaa Chanada, ac yn y croeso a roddwyd ynddiweddar i Peter Hain. Yr oeddech wedi sônam Howard Stringer, sy’n cyfeirio ato’i hunfel un a aned yng Nghymru, sydd bob amseryn gweld cyfle i wneud cysylltiadau yn eihen wlad. Gwych oedd ei weld ef a llawer unarall yn ogystal â chi’ch hun yn yramgueddfa pan gawsom ein diwrnodarbennig i nodi agor y Cynulliad.

You stress the importance of workingtogether more than anything else. You havecertainly put your money where your mouthis in terms of working together. I thank youfor the co-operation you have offered us inestablishing the Wales North AmericanBusiness Council. It is a most welcomeinitiative. Your participation is enormouslysignificant and important to us.

Yr ydych yn rhoi mwy o bwys ar gydweithionag ar ddim arall. Mae’n sicr eich bod wedirhoi’ch arian ar eich gair o ran cydweithio.Diolchaf ichi am y cydweithio yr ydych wediei gynnig i ni drwy sefydlu Cyngor BusnesCymru Gogledd-America. Mae’n fenter syddi’w chroesawu’n fawr. Mae’ch cyfraniad ynaruthrol o bwysig ac arwyddocaol i ni.

You have a team playing in the rugby worldcup. After beating the world champions, weare slightly less worried about them. It iscultural and business links, as well as thecontact between us that will be important.The balance of inward investment,indigenous growth and partnership withAmerican companies that have grown up inWales is important. I hope that Americancompanies will recognise our saying thatonce a company has a factory or has investedin Wales, it becomes a Welsh company. Thatis the extent of our welcome. It also allowsus to say that Ford and GE are Welshcompanies.

Mae gennych dîm yn chwarae yng nghwpanrygbi’r byd. Ar ôl curo pencampwyr y byd,yr ydym yn poeni ychydig llai amdanynt. Ycysylltiadau diwylliannol a busnes, ynogystal â’r cyswllt rhyngom, fydd yn bwysig.Mae cydbwysedd y buddsoddi o’r tu allan, ytwf cynhenid a’r bartneriaeth â chwmnïauAmericanaidd a dyfodd yng Nghymru ynbwysig. Gobeithio y bydd cwmnïauAmericanaidd yn cydnabod y dywediad syddgennym bod cwmni, wedi iddo gael ffatri neuwedi iddo fuddsoddi yng Nghymru, yn dodyn gwmni Cymreig. Dyna faint ein croeso.Mae’n caniatáu inni ddweud mai cwmnïauCymreig yw Ford a GE.

The Assembly in its early days is trying tolook outwards to the United Kingdom,Europe and the world, rather than justinward. Your presence here today has been asalutary reminder to us of how ambitious wehave to be for our small country. You visitedAberglasney yesterday and that is anexample of both digging into the roots of ourhistory with confidence and looking forwardto the future with the same confidence.

Yn ei ddyddiau cynnar, mae’r Cynulliad ynceisio edrych tuag allan i’r Deyrnas Unedig,Ewrop a gweddill y byd, yn hytrach nagedrych tuag i mewn yn unig. Mae’chpresenoldeb yma heddiw yn fodd llesol i’nhatgoffa pa mor uchelgeisiol y bydd raid innifod dros ein gwlad fach ni. Fe ymwelasochag Aberglasney ddoe ac mae hynny’nenghraifft o dyrchu i wraidd ein hanes ynhyderus ac edrych ymlaen tua’r dyfodolgyda’r un hyder.

Your visit treats the Assembly and Wales Mae’ch ymweliad yn trin y Cynulliad a

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with respect and I thank you. It reminds usthat we must also treat Wales with respectand make connections for our people inWales with the wider world.

Chymru â pharch ac yr wyf yn diolch i chi.Mae’n ein hatgoffa bod rhaid i ninnau drinCymru â pharch a gwneud cysylltiadau ar ranein pobl yng Nghymru â’r byd y tu allan.

Diolch am gymryd y diddordeb, felLlysgennad yr Unol Daleithiau, i ddod yma arhoi anerchiad i ni heddiw. Mae’n eglur i niy byddwch yn Llysgennad dros Gymruhefyd. Diolch yn fawr.

I thank the United States Ambassador fortaking an interest in Wales by coming here toaddress us today. It is obvious to us that youwill be an Ambassador for Wales as well.Thank you very much.

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Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 2 p.m. gyda’r Llywydd yn y Gadair.The Assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.

Datganiad gan y LlywyddStatement by the Presiding Officer

Y Llywydd: Galwaf y Cynulliad i drefn.Mae gennyf ddatganiad i’w wneud ar ysystem bleidleisio electronig. Rhoddaiswybod i’r Aelodau yr wythnos diwethaf fody system bleidleisio electronig yn cael eiphrofi. Mae’r gwaith hwnnw wedi dod i ben.Cafodd y system gyfan ei phrofi ac yr oeddyn gweithio. Yr wyf bellach yn fodlon ygallwn ei defnyddio. Os cawn unrhywbleidleisiau cadarnhau heddiw, byddwn yndefnyddio’r system electronig.

The Presiding Officer: I call the Assemblyto order. I have a statement to make on theelectronic voting system. I advised Memberslast week that the electronic voting systemwas being tested. That work has beencompleted. The whole system was tested andwas working. I am satisfied that that we canuse it. If we have any confirmatory votestoday, we shall use the electronic system.

Fe welwch fod eich cardiau pleidleisiowedi’u tynnu allan o’r holltau yn y panelipleidleisio ar eich desgiau. Tanio’r systemgyda’r cardiau yn eu lle oedd rhan o’rbroblem. Mae yna gwestiwn o ddiogelwch acfelly bydd cardiau pleidleisio yn cael eu rhoii Aelodau cyn pob pleidlais electronig, ynystod y pum munud pan fyddwn yn galwpleidlais. Yna, dylid rhoi’r cardiau i mewngyda’r sglodyn aur yn wynebu tuag i fyny abydd y tic gwyrdd yn goleuo. Fe gawn weld.

You will notice that your voting cards havebeen removed from the slots on the votingpanels on your desks. Part of the problemwas booting the system with the cards inplace. There is an issue of security and sovoting cards will be given to Members beforeeach electronic vote during the five minutesof a vote being called. Cards should then beinserted with the gold chip facing upwardsand the green tick will light. We shall see.

Cwestiynau i’r Prif YsgrifennyddQuestions to the First Secretary

Awdurdodau Addysg LleolLocal Education Authorities

Q1 Jenny Randerson: How many localeducation authorities have so far filed detailsas required of how they spent the additionalmoney allocated to schools this year andwhich LEAs have so far failed to do so?(OAQ311AG)

C1 Jenny Randerson: Hyd yn hyn, sawlawdurdod addysg lleol sydd wedi cofnodimanylion yn unol â’r gofyn o sut y maentwedi gwario’r arian ychwanegol addyrannwyd i’r ysgolion eleni a phaawdurdodau sydd wedi methu â gwneudhynny hyd yn hyn? (OAQ311AG)

The First Secretary: I am pleased to saythat all local authorities have submittedreturns, giving their overall educationbudgets and the amounts delegated toschools. The information is being analysed.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Yr wyf yn falch oddweud bod yr holl awdurdodau lleol wedicyflwyno ffurflenni, gan nodi eu cyllidebauaddysg cyffredinol a’r symiau addirprwywyd i ysgolion. Mae’r wybodaethyn cael ei dadansoddi.

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Jenny Randerson: There was a delayexperienced as many LEAs did not presentthe information by the correct date. In viewof the concern that perhaps not all the moneyhas been passed on to schools, do you sharemy additional worry at the recent decisiontaken by Cardiff County Council to make itsdirector of education redundant and enlist acorporate management team that does notinclude anyone with educational expertise? Isthis not against section 532 of the EducationAct 1996, which deals with the appointmentof directors of education? In face of strongconcerns expressed by trade unions, teachersand parents in Cardiff, will you considerusing your powers under this Act to enforcecompliance?

Jenny Randerson: Yr oedd oedi wedidigwydd am nad oedd llawer o awdurdodauaddysg lleol wedi cyflwyno’r wybodaetherbyn y dyddiad cywir. Yng ngolwg y prydernad yw’r holl arian efallai wedi eidrosglwyddo i ysgolion, a ydych yn rhannu’rpryder ychwanegol sydd gennyf ynghylch ypenderfyniad diweddar gan Gyngor SirCaerdydd i ddiswyddo ei gyfarwyddwraddysg a chael gafael ar dîm rheolicorfforaethol nad yw’n cynnwys neb sydd agarbenigaeth addysgol? Onid yw hyn yn groesi adran 532 Deddf Addysg 1996, sy’n ymdrinâ phenodi cyfarwyddwyr addysg? Yn wyneby pryderon cryf a fynegwyd gan undebaullafur, athrawon a rhieni yng Nghaerdydd, aydych yn fodlon ystyried defnyddio’chpwerau o dan y Ddeddf hon i orfodicydymffurfiad?

The First Secretary: That question straysaway from the subject of the spendingallocated to schools by LEAs, but Icongratulate you on inventiveness if nothingelse. It would be more appropriate for you topursue this type of issue in the chamber ofCardiff County Council. We must rememberour responsibilities as an Assembly and nottry to take decisions for local authorities.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Mae’r cwestiwnhwnnw’n crwydro oddi wrth bwnc ygwariant a ddyrannwyd i ysgolion ganawdurdodau addysg lleol. ond fe’chllongyfarchaf ar eich dyfeisgarwch yn anaddim. Byddai’n fwy priodol pe baech yn dilynmater o’r math hwn yn siambr Cyngor SirCaerdydd. Rhaid inni gofio’n cyfrifoldebaufel Cynulliad a pheidio â cheisio gwneudpenderfyniadau dros awdurdodau lleol.

We must ensure that money gets through toschools. That is something we must do inpartnership with local authorities, throughthe Welsh Local Government Associationand the Partnership Council. Those are theplaces where the principle needs to bedebated.

Rhaid inni sicrhau bod arian yn cyrraedd yrysgolion. Mae hynny’n rhywbeth y bydd raidinni ei wneud mewn partneriaeth agawdurdodau lleol, drwy GymdeithasLlywodraeth Leol Cymru a’r CyngorPartneriaeth. Dyna’r mannau lle y mae angentrafod yr egwyddor.

Rod Richards: Does the First Secretaryrecall an answer to a written question he gaveme a couple of weeks ago, when I asked whatproportion of the £844 million he keepsboasting about has gone to education? Doeshe recall his answer of some £225 million:only 27 per cent? Is the First Secretarysatisfied with that percentage? Of that smallpercentage that was identified as part of thelocal government revenue settlement, does heagree that all of the schools budget—100 percent—should be delegated to schools? Whatfigure will he recommend to local educationauthorities for delegation to schools?

Rod Richards: A yw’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yncofio ateb i gwestiwn ysgrifenedig a roddoddi mi ychydig wythnosau’n ôl, pryd ygofynnais pa gyfran o’r £844 miliwn y mae’ndal i frolio yn ei gylch sydd wedi mynd ataddysg? A yw’n cofio ei ateb o ryw £225miliwn: dim ond 27 y cant? A yw’r PrifYsgrifennydd yn fodlon â’r ganran honno?O’r ganran fechan honno a ddynodwyd ynrhan o setliad refeniw llywodraeth leol, ayw’n cytuno y dylid dirprwyo’r cwbl ogyllideb yr ysgolion—100 y cant—i’rysgolion? Pa ffigur y byddai ef yn eiargymell i awdurdodau addysg lleol i’w

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ddirprwyo i ysgolion?

2:06 p.m.

The First Secretary: That is what I call aWestminster-style question because its basisis that you want all the funds for furthereducation colleges, for instance, to be givento schools. You have chosen a totallyinappropriate percentage. The £844 millionincludes not just the budget for schooleducation but a wide range of educationalprovision. As I indicated in my response toJenny Randerson, we now have theinformation from education authorities andare going through it to discover preciselywhat has happened about money going toschools as intended. Once analysed, thatinformation will be shared with theAssembly and we can judge on the facts.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Mae hynny’nrhywbeth a alwn yn gwestiwn yn null SanSteffan oherwydd y sail iddo yw eich bod amweld y cwbl o’r arian i golegau addysgbellach, er enghraifft, yn cael ei roi iysgolion. Yr ydych wedi dewis canran gwblamhriodol. Mae’r £844 miliwn yn cynnwysnid yn unig y gyllideb ar gyfer addysg mewnysgolion ond amrediad eang o ddarpariaethaddysgol. Fel y nodais yn f’ateb i JennyRanderson, yr ydym bellach wedi derbyn yrwybodaeth oddi wrth yr awdurdodau addysgac yn mynd drwyddi er mwyn darganfod ynunion beth a ddigwyddodd ynghylch arian ynmynd i’r ysgolion fel y bwriadwyd. Ar ôl eidadansoddi, fe rennir yr wybodaeth honnoâ’r Cynulliad a gallwn farnu’n ôl y ffeithiau.

Owen John Thomas: Will the FirstSecretary support action to improve therelationship between LEAs and schools,which is in danger of deteriorating drasticallyif local authorities follow the example ofCardiff in getting rid of the vital post ofdirector of education?

Owen John Thomas: A yw’r PrifYsgrifennydd yn fodlon cefnogi camau iwella’r berthynas rhwng awdurdodau addysglleol ac ysgolion, sydd mewn perygl oddirywio’n enbyd os bydd awdurdodau lleolyn dilyn esiampl Caerdydd drwy gael gwaredar swydd hanfodol y cyfarwyddwr addysg?

The First Secretary: Obviouslyinventiveness is catching. I do not havedetails of the decisions made by Cardiff or itsarrangements for the management of itsresponsibilities as the local educationauthority. If any matter that comes under theresponsibilities of the Assembly is affectedby that, the Assembly Secretary andCommittee responsible for education andchildren should look at it. However, I think itwould be premature for me to respond to thequestion as it is posed.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Mae’n amlwg bod ydyfeisgarwch yn ymledu. Nid oes gennyffanylion am y penderfyniadau a wnaed ganGaerdydd nac am ei drefniadau i reoli eigyfrifoldebau fel yr awdurdod addysg lleol.Os bydd unrhyw fater a ddaw o fewncyfrifoldebau’r Cynulliad yn cael ei effeithiogan hynny, fe ddylai’r YsgrifennyddCynulliad a’r Pwyllgor sy’n gyfrifol amaddysg a phlant roi ystyriaeth i hynny. Foddbynnag, credaf ei bod yn rhy gynnar imi ateby cwestiwn fel y’i rhoddwyd.

Datblygiadau UwchfarchnadoeddSupermarket Developments

Q2 Peter Black: What plans are there torelax planning constraints on large out-of-town supermarket developments in Wales?(OAQ292VB)

C2 Peter Black: Pa gynlluniau sydd ar gael ileihau cyfyngiadau cynllunio arddatblygiadau uwchfarchnadoedd mawr argyrion trefi yng Nghymru? (OAQ292VB)

The First Secretary: I am pleased to say Y prif Ysgrifennydd: Yr wyf yn falch o

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none whatsoever. The present guidance wasset out in ‘Planning Guidance for Wales’,published in April. This specificallyencourages new retail development in towncentres and only if town-centre sites are notavailable should out-of-town sites be sought.

ddweud nad oes dim o gwbl. Fe gyflwynwydyr arweiniad presennol yn ‘Arweiniad arGynllunio i Gymru’, a gyhoeddwyd ynEbrill. Mae hyn yn benodol yn annogdatblygiadau adwerthu newydd yng nghanoltrefi a dim ond os nad oes safleoedd ar gaelyng nghanol trefi y dylid chwilio amsafleoedd ar gyrion trefi.

Peter Black: Thank you for that encouraginganswer. However, we need to go furthergiven that research shows we have a net lossof 270 food and retail industry jobs for everynew supermarket opened. Will you consideramending the planning guidance note to havea presumption against out-of-town shoppingcentres?

Peter Black: Diolch i chi am yr atebcalonogol hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, mae angeninni fynd ymhellach gan fod ymchwil yndangos y bydd gennym golled glir o 270 oswyddi yn y diwydiant bwyd ac adwerthu ambob uwchfarchnad newydd a agorir. Afyddech cystal ag ystyried newid y nodynarweiniad cynllunio fel bod ynddoragdybiaeth yn erbyn canolfannau siopa argyrion trefi?

The First Secretary: My first answerindicated that presumption, as does the wayin which planning guidance has beentightened up during my period as Secretaryof State for Wales. I am certain the Assemblywill want to consider this topic. Planningguidance has to be approached carefully. It isa policy matter that affects the Assembly inits judicial function of dealing with appeals.It is important that the guidance given iscarefully thought out and judicious so thatwe can be judicial when judging individualissues. I appreciate that there is a history tothis topic. There have been cases where towncentres have been threatened by a largeamount of out-of-town development. Therehave been other developments that have notposed that threat and extended people’soptions. The guidance as it stands goes in thedirection you suggest.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Yr oedd f’ateb cyntafyn nodi’r rhagdybiaeth honno, yn yr un moddag y mae’r ffordd y tynhawyd yr arweiniad argynllunio yn ystod fy nghyfnod ynYsgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru. Yr wyf ynsicr y bydd y Cynulliad am ystyried y pwnchwn. Rhaid ymdrin yn ofalus ag arweiniad argynllunio. Mae’n fater polisi sy’n effeithio ary Cynulliad yn ei swyddogaeth farnwrol oymdrin ag apeliadau. Mae’n bwysig bod yrarweiniad a roddir yn ddoeth ac wedi eiystyried yn ofalus fel y gallwn fod ynfarnwrol wrth ddyfarnu ar faterion unigol. Yrwyf yn sylweddoli bod hanes i’r pwnc hwn.Fe gafwyd achosion pryd y mae canol trefiwedi eu bygwth gan lawer o ddatblygu argyrion trefi. Cafwyd datblygiadau eraill syddheb olygu bygythiad o’r fath ac sydd wediymestyn dewisiadau pobl. Mae’r arweiniadfel y mae yn mynd i’r cyfeiriad aawgrymwch.

Janet Ryder: Out-of-town developmentsusually cause local unhappiness. Communitycouncils and local groups often feel that theirviews are not considered. Do you agree thatthe planning process needs to be reviewedand, as part of that review, will you ensurethat community councils’ views are takeninto account? Will you also look at ways ofgiving local community groups andindividuals the right to have their feelings putbefore planning committees, either by

Janet Ryder: Bydd datblygiadau ar gyriontrefi fel arfer yn achosi adfodlonrwydd lleol.Bydd cynghorau cymuned a grwpiau lleol ynteimlo’n aml na roddir ystyriaeth i’w barn. Agytunwch fod angen adolygu’r brosescynllunio ac, fel rhan o’r adolygiad hwnnw, afyddwch cystal â sicrhau bod barn cynghoraucymuned yn cael ei hystyried? A ydych hefydyn fodlon ystyried ffyrdd i roi hawl i grwpiaucymunedol lleol ac unigolion gyflwyno eusafbwynt gerbron pwyllgorau cynllunio, un

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themselves or through an advocate? ai ganddynt hwy eu hunain neu drwygefnogwr?

The First Secretary: There are formalprocesses that allow for comments to bemade. There are two elements to this. One isthe development of local plans andconsultation about how each part of Walessees its future developing. It is important thatconsultation is meaningful at that stage. It ispossible to have a formal consultation thatdoes not engage people. The second aspect isdealing with a specific application. It isimportant to deal with those matterssensitively and well. Sometimes temperaturesrun so high that it is difficult, even with thebest will in the world, to achieve that.However, the general principle that thereshould be effective, meaningful consultationin which both sides listen to each other isabsolutely right.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Ceir prosesau ffurfiolsy’n caniatáu cyflwyno sylwadau. Mae dwyelfen yn hynny. Un ohonynt yw datblygucynlluniau lleol ac ymgynghori ynghylch ymodd y mae pob rhan o Gymru yn gweld eidyfodol yn datblygu. Mae’n bwysig bod yrymgynghori’n ystyrlon yn y cyfnod hwnnw.Fe ellir cael ymgynghori ffurfiol nad yw’ncysylltu â phobl. Yr ail agwedd yw ymdrin âchais penodol. Mae’n bwysig ymdrin ynsensitif ac yn dda â’r materion hynny.Weithiau bydd gwres y teimladau mor uchelfel ei bod yn anodd cyflawni hynny, hyd ynoed gyda phob ewyllys da yn y byd. Foddbynnag, mae’r egwyddor gyffredinol y dylidcael ymgynghori effeithiol, ystyrlon lle ybydd y ddwy ochr yn gwrando ar ei gilydd yngwbl gywir.

John Griffiths: Can we have a review ofplanning regulations to reconsider holdingdevelopers to the terms of their originalapplication? That would ensure that localresidents, local authorities and everybodyconcerned could be more confident that ifplanning permission were granted forparticular proposals the application’s termswould be abided by when the eventualdevelopment went ahead.

John Griffiths: A oes modd inni gaeladolygiad o’r rheoliadau cynllunio er mwynailystyried dal datblygwyr at y telerau yn eucais gwreiddiol? Byddai hynny’n sicrhau ygallai trigolion lleol, awdurdodau lleol aphawb dan sylw deimlo’n fwy hyderus, pebai caniatâd cynllunio wedi ei roi ar gyfercynlluniau penodol, y byddai telerau’r caisyn cael eu dilyn pan fyddai’r datblygiad ynmynd ymlaen yn y pen draw.

The First Secretary: That is a matter for mycolleague Peter Law and the Committeedealing with those issues. I agree that thesematters need to be kept under review becausesometimes things can become a little relaxedand need to be picked up. In general, it isexpected that where planning permission isgranted in a specific form, it should be keptto. There is legislation that can support that. Iaccept that the matter should be kept underreview.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Mae hynny’n fateri’m cyd-weithiwr Peter Law a’r Pwyllgorsy’n ymdrin â’r materion hynny. Cytunaf fodangen adolygu’r materion hyn o hyd am fodpethau weithiau’n gallu mynd yn rhy llac felbod angen rhoi sylw iddynt. Yn gyffredinol,pan roddir caniatâd cynllunio ar ffurfbenodol, mae disgwyl y bydd hynny’n cael eiddilyn. Ceir deddfwriaeth sy’n gallu ateguhynny. Derbyniaf fod angen cadw’r materdan sylw bob amser.

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Problemau IechydHealth Problems

Q3 Huw Lewis: What plans does the FirstSecretary have to co-ordinate a strategy toaddress health problems in and across theValleys, especially in respect of problemsthat are directly linked to socio-economicdisadvantage? (OAQ395VB)

C3 Huw Lewis: Pa gynlluniau sydd gan yPrif Ysgrifennydd i gydlynu strategaeth ifynd i’r afael â phroblemau iechyd ar hyd acar led y Cymoedd, yn enwedig mewnperthynas â’r problemau sy’n uniongyrcholgysylltiedig ag amddifadedd economaidd achymdeithasol? (OAQ395VB)

The First Secretary: I am pleased that youconnect socio-economic disadvantage andhealth issues. The strategy to address thisproblem is contained in ‘Better Health,Better Wales: Strategic Framework’, whichfollowed the Green Paper launched in May1998. There are several documents inheritedby the Assembly that would repay studyduring the summer. I appreciate thatMembers have not had the chance to readthem all. I would particularly recommendthis one for study by Assembly Members.Wide-ranging consultation showed strongsupport for making health protection andimprovement a key principle of publicservices. The Government’s agenda fortackling poor health by tackling theeconomic and social factors which influencehealth and well-being was widely welcomed.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Yr wyf yn falch eichbod yn cysylltu amddifadedd economaidd achymdeithasol â materion iechyd. Fe geir ystrategaeth i ymdrin â’r broblem hon yn‘Gwell Iechyd, Gwell Cymru: FframwaithStrategol’, a ddilynodd y Papur Gwyrdd alansiwyd ym Mai 1998. Mae sawl dogfen aetifeddwyd gan y Cynulliad y byddai’n talui’w hastudio dros yr haf. Yr wyf ynsylweddoli nad yw’r Aelodau wedi cael cyflei ddarllen pob un. Byddwn yn cymeradwyohon yn arbennig i’w hastudio gan Aelodau’rCynulliad. Drwy’r ymgynghori eang fewelwyd bod cefnogaeth gref dros wneuddiogelu a gwella iechyd yn egwyddorallweddol mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.Yr oedd croeso cyffredinol i agenda’rLlywodraeth i ymdrin â iechyd gwael drwyfynd i’r afael â’r ffactorau economaidd achymdeithasol sy’n dylanwadu ar iechyd alles.

Huw Lewis: Given the self-evidentinequalities in health faced by the people ofMerthyr Tydfil and Rhymney, will the FirstSecretary agree that the protection,expansion and improvement of existinghealth service provision in that district is atop priority?

Huw Lewis: O ystyried yranghydraddoldebau iechyd amlwg a wynebirgan bobl Merthyr Tudful a Rhymni, a yw’rPrif Ysgrifennydd yn fodlon cytuno boddiogelu, ehangu a gwella darpariaethbresennol y gwasanaeth iechyd yn yr ardalhonno yn flaenoriaeth bennaf?

The First Secretary: Yes. Ensuring the righthealth provision is a top priority, particularlyin districts that have suffered in the past.However, as people know, we need to look atthe efficient delivery of health services inevery part of Wales and ensure that we getvalue for money through an improved systemand service. That is the reason for the stock-take. I am certain that every Member willsympathise with your point about the need topreserve and improve the quality of theservice.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Ydwyf. Mae sicrhau’rddarpariaeth iechyd briodol yn flaenoriaethbennaf, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd addioddefodd yn y gorffennol. Fodd bynnag,fel y gwyddys, mae angen inni ystyried yddarpariaeth effeithlon o wasanaethau iechydym mhob rhan o Gymru a sicrhau y cawnwerth am arian drwy system a gwasanaethgwell. Dyna’r rheswm dros y cyfrif stoc. Yrwyf yn sicr y bydd pob Aelod yncydymdeimlo â’ch pwynt am yr angen i gadwa gwella ansawdd y gwasanaeth.

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Helen Mary Jones: How does theGovernment propose to ensure thatcommunities that suffer similar healthproblems to those in the Valleys, but whichare included in predominantly rural healthauthority areas, such as Llanelli and theGwendraeth valley, will benefit from boththe measures that you have outlined andthose in the documents? I have had theopportunity to read them.

Helen Mary Jones: Sut y mae’rLlywodraeth yn bwriadu sicrhau y byddcymunedau sy’n dioddef problemau iechydtebyg i’r rhai yn y Cymoedd, ond agynhwysir mewn ardaloedd awdurdod iechydsydd yn wledig gan mwyaf, fel Llanelli aChwm Gwendraeth, yn elwa o’r mesurau aamlinellwyd gennych a’r rhai yn ydogfennau? Yr wyf wedi cael cyfle i’wdarllen.

The First Secretary: You make a goodpoint. In any rural area, there will beconcentrations of health issues that arisefrom old heavy industries and from povertyand inequality. We need to ensure that we donot generalise to the point that we overlookthat. I accept your point. Over the comingmonths, we have the great challenge ofputting the national health service in Walesback on the rails. You are aware of theproblems in Dyfed Powys; there are alsoproblems in other parts of Wales. I lookforward to the results of the stock-takebecause that will provide the basis on whichthe Assembly can have a proper andinformed debate on the health service inWales, perhaps for the first time. I amconvinced from the direction of some of ourmore important debates that this Assemblywill make a significant contribution toensuring the right policies for the future.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Yr ydych yn gwneudpwynt da. Mewn unrhyw ardal wledig, fegeir crynoadau o faterion iechyd sy’n deillioo hen ddiwydiannau trwm ac o dlodi acanghydraddoldeb. Rhaid inni sicrhau nafyddwn yn cyffredinoli cymaint nes anghofiohynny. Yr wyf yn derbyn eich pwynt. Dros ymisoedd sydd i ddod, mae’r sialens fawrgennym o roi’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladolyng Nghymru yn ôl ar y cledrau. Yr ydych ynymwybodol o’r problemau yn Nyfed Powys;fe geir problemau hefyd mewn rhannau eraillo Gymru. Edrychaf ymlaen at ganlyniadau’rcyfrif stoc oherwydd bydd hynny’n darparu’rsylfaen ar gyfer dadl briodol a chytbwys gany Cynulliad ar y gwasanaeth iechyd yngNghymru, efallai am y tro cyntaf. Yr wyf ynargyhoeddedig o gyfeiriad rhai o’n dadleuonpwysicaf y bydd y Cynulliad yn cyfrannu’nsylweddol at sicrhau’r polisïau cywir i’rdyfodol.

2:16 p.m.

Terfynau Gwario i Awdurdodau LleolSpending Limits for Local Authorities

Q4 Pauline Jarman: What plans are there toallow additional spending limits for localauthorities to provide match funding for EUgrants? (OAQ303VB) [R]

C4 Pauline Jarman: Pa gynlluniau sydd argael i ganiatáu terfynau gwario ychwanegoli’r awdurdodau lleol i ddarparu ariancyfatebol ar gyfer grantiau’r UE?(OAQ303VB) [R]

The First Secretary: The decisions onfuture funding and spending limits for localauthorities for match funding for EU grantswill be a matter for the Assembly as part ofthe overall budget setting process. I believemost Members have had the chance of anexplanation in the last fortnight.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Bydd ypenderfyniadau ar ariannu a therfynaugwario i awdurdodau lleol yn y dyfodol argyfer arian cyfatebol i grantiau’r UE yn fateri’r Cynulliad fel rhan o’r broses gyffredinol obennu’r gyllideb. Credaf fod y rhan fwyaf o’rAelodau wedi cael cyfle i dderbyn eglurhadyn y pythefnos diwethaf.

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Pauline Jarman: You will recall the famousbattle over additionality in the Recharprogramme, after which the BritishGovernment made an agreement in 1992.Would not that agreement be breached if theAssembly, and the UK Government inparticular, did not have regard to itscommitment to provide additionality? Clevertop-slicing arrangements will not necessarilyget round the additionality requirements,especially if they lead to big cuts in spendingto make way for EU finance projects. It isimportant that we get a commitment onadditionality and match funding, to enable usto maximise our drawing down of thesegrants and to plan for them.

Pauline Jarman: Byddwch yn cofio’rfrwydr enwog ynghylch ychwanegoldeb ynrhaglen Rechar, y gwnaeth LlywodraethPrydain gytundeb yn ei sgil yn 1992. Onifyddai’n groes i’r cytundeb hwnnw pe nabai’r Cynulliad, a Llywodraeth y DU ynarbennig, yn rhoi ystyriaeth i’w hymrwymiadi ddarparu ychwanegoldeb? Ni fyddtrefniadau tafell-uchaf clyfar o reidrwydd ynosgoi’r gofynion am ychwanegoldeb, ynenwedig os byddant yn arwain at doriadaumawr ar wario er mwyn agor y ffordd ibrojectau a ariannir gan yr UE. Mae’nbwysig inni gael ymrwymiad arychwanegoldeb ac arian cyfatebol, fel ygallwn ymestyn am y nifer fwyaf o’r grantiauhynny a chynllunio ar eu cyfer.

The First Secretary: You are right that wemust satisfy the requirements foradditionality. The UK Government has theresponsibility of fulfilling those requirementsso that we can draw down the monies forObjective 1 and other structural funds andbenefit from what we have managed to earnfor Wales by fighting for Objective 1 status.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Yr ydych yn gywirwrth ddweud bod rhaid inni gyflawni’rgofynion am ychwanegoldeb. Maecyfrifoldeb ar Lywodraeth y DU i gyflawni’rgofynion hynny fel y gallwn ymestyn am yrarian ar gyfer Amcan 1 a chronfeyddstrwythurol eraill ac elwa o’r hyn yr ydymwedi gallu ei ennill i Gymru drwy ymladd amstatws Amcan 1.

However, as I have explained on manyoccasions, you cannot jump ahead of theprocess for reaching the public spendingarrangements and meeting the additionalityrequirements. You should put faith in the factthat there is a process to take care of theserequirements and that both the PrimeMinister and the Chancellor of theExchequer have made it clear that the UKGovernment will not let Wales down ingetting the best deal, which means allowingus to draw on those funds.

Fodd bynnag, fel yr eglurais ar lawerachlysur, ni allwch neidio o flaen y broses ermwyn cyrraedd y trefniadau gwariantcyhoeddus a chyflawni’r gofynion amychwanegoldeb. Dylech ymddiried yn yffaith bod proses ar gael i ofalu am ygofynion hynny a bod y Prif Weinidog aChanghellor y Trysorlys wedi rhoi ar ddeallna fydd Llywodraeth y DU yn siomi Cymruwrth sicrhau’r fargen orau, sy’n golygucaniatáu inni ddefnyddio’r cronfeydd hynny.

Dafydd Wigley: A yw’r Prif Ysgrifennyddyn derbyn ei bod yn hanfodol ar gyferllywodraeth leol, ein llywodraeth ni ar lefelgenedlaethol Gymreig ac ar gyfer y sectorpreifat bod pobl yn gwybod ymlaen llaw bethfydd y ddarpariaeth ariannol er mwyn gallucynllunio? A yw’n derbyn er mwyn cael ybudd mwyaf o’r cronfeydd strwythurolEwropeaidd, ei bod yn hanfodol fod yr arianyn arian ychwanegol, a’i bod yn hanfodol fodarian cyfatebol ar gael sydd hefyd yn

Dafydd Wigley: Does the First Secretaryaccept that it is essential for localgovernment, our national Government ofWales and the private sector that peopleknow before-hand what the financialarrangements will be so that they can planahead? Does he accept that to ensure the bestadvantage from European structural funds itis essential that the money is additionalmoney, and that there is match fundingavailable that is also additional to the funds

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ychwanegol i’r cronfeydd sydd eisoes yma argyfer gwasanaethau eraill?

already here for other services?

A yw’n sylweddoli, pe bai’r fformiwla syddwedi gweithredu dros y saith mlynedddiwethaf yn parhau yn y dyfodol, maimantais o £400 miliwn yn unig y byddem ynei chael o’r £1.6 biliwn a fydd yn dod o’rcronfeydd strwythurol i Gymru? Felly, mae’nrhaid cael ymrwymiad y bydd y gyfundrefnhon yn newid os ydym yn dymunomanteisio’n llawn ar yr arian pwysig hwn.

Does he realise that if the formula that hasexisted over the past seven years continuedin future, we would only get the benefit of£400 million of the £1.6 billion that willcome from the structural funds to Wales? Wehave to have a commitment that this systemwill change if we are to fully benefit fromthis important money.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Y mae’n siom fodDafydd yn parhau i godi amheuon ynglŷn â’rsefyllfa. Yr wyf wedi cadarnhau fwy nagunwaith fod proses i fynd drwyddi i sicrhaubod yr arian yn dod i’r Cynulliad, yn yr unmodd ag adrannau eraill o’r Llywodraethdros y blynyddoedd nesaf.

The First Secretary: It is disappointing thatDafydd continues to cast doubt on thesituation. I have confirmed more than oncethat there is a process to go through to ensurethat the money comes to the Assembly, aswith other departments of Government in theensuing years.

I have underlined that the comprehensivespending review looked across Governmentat the requirements of all departments. TheAssembly benefits from and takes forwardthe finances available to the Welsh Office asa result of the review. In future, issues likeadditionality requirements and match fundingwill have to be dealt with and there is aprocess to do that. Dafydd is asking for theconclusion of the process before it hasbegun. That is not the way it works.

Yr wyf wedi pwysleisio bod yr adolygiadcynhwysfawr o wariant yn edrych ar draws yLlywodraeth ar ofynion yr holl adrannau.Bydd y Cynulliad yn elwa ar yr arian oedd argael i’r Swyddfa Gymreig o ganlyniad i’radolygiad ac yn mynd â hynny ymlaen. Yn ydyfodol, bydd raid ymdrin â materion felgofynion am ychwanegoldeb ac ariancyfatebol ac mae proses ar gael i wneudhynny. Mae Dafydd yn holi ynghylchcanlyniad y broses cyn iddi ddechrau. Nidfelly y mae’n gweithio.

Nick Bourne: Given what the First Secretaryhas just said about the process which wekeep hearing about, and the lack of progresson it and of any clear commitment by theGovernment to find new money for matchfunds other than the rather threadbare mantrathat the Prime Minister will not let Walesdown—could he say where he expects thematch funds to come from so that projectofficers can prepare their programmes to takeadvantage of the EU funds which willotherwise be lost to Wales?

Nick Bourne: O dderbyn yr hyn y mae’r PrifYsgrifennydd newydd ei ddweud am y brosesyr ydym yn clywed amdani o hyd, a’r diffygcynnydd ynghylch hynny ac unrhywymrwymiad pendant gan y Llywodraeth iganfod arian cyfatebol newydd heblaw am ymantra treuliedig braidd na fydd y PrifWeinidog yn siomi Cymru—a oes modd iddoddweud o ble y mae’n disgwyl y daw’r ariancyfatebol fel y gall swyddogion projectaubaratoi eu rhaglenni er mwyn manteisio ar ycyllid Ewropeaidd y gallai Cymru ei golli felarall?

The First Secretary: The point must berepeated because it does not seem to havebeen understood. It was well understood bythe Conservative spokesman in the House ofCommons, who—[Interruption.] I am giving

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Rhaid ailadrodd ypwynt oherwydd nid yw’n ymddangos ei fodwedi ei ddeall. Fe’i deallwyd yn iawn gan yllefarydd Ceidwadol yn Nhŷ’r Cyffredin, a—[Torri ar draws.] Yr wyf yn ceisio rhoi

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you information that I think might help you. gwybodaeth y tybiaf y gallai fod o gymorth ichi.

The shadow spokesman on Welsh affairsresponded after Dafydd asked these veryquestions several months ago, by saying,‘Yes, of course there is a process to gothrough’. The previous ConservativeGovernment had to go through a process, asdoes this Government. We all know that, solet us get on to the serious issues.

Fe atebodd llefarydd yr Wrthblaid ar faterionCymreig, wedi i Dafydd ofyn yr uniongwestiynau hyn rai misoedd yn ôl, drwyddweud, ‘Ie, wrth gwrs bod proses y mae’nrhaid ei dilyn’. Bu’n rhaid i’r LlywodraethGeidwadol flaenorol ddilyn proses, yn yr unmodd â’r Llywodraeth hon. Yr ydym oll yngwybod hynny, felly gadewch inni ddod at ymaterion pwysig.

On the question of match funding, there isnothing new in this. Match funding can comefrom a variety of different sources such aslocal government, the voluntary sector, theEuropean Investment Bank and the privatesector. Of course, we must ensure that therequirements of match funding areconsidered when decisions are taken aboutpublic expenditure. Additionality and matchfunding are two quite different issues. Bothare important to ensure that we can useObjective 1 status to the utmost. The LabourGovernment, against the cynicism of others,won that opportunity. I am not sure whethercrates of champagne have been delivered yet,but may I remind Dafydd of undertakingsgiven at that time. We won Objective 1status, which will make a great difference toWales. It is a great opportunity and I hopethat Members will move on from theunproductive wishing to know the outcomeof a process that has not started yet tothinking about how we can make it work.

Ynglŷn â chwestiwn arian cyfatebol, nid oesdim yn newydd yn hyn. Gall arian cyfatebolddod o amryw o ffynonellau gwahanol felllywodraeth leol, y sector gwirfoddol, BancBuddsoddi Ewrop a’r sector preifat. Wrthgwrs, rhaid inni sicrhau bod y gofynion amarian cyfatebol yn cael eu hystyried wrthbenderfynu ar wariant cyhoeddus. Maeychwanegoldeb ac arian cyfatebol yn ddaufater cwbl wahanol. Mae’r ddau’n bwysig ermwyn sicrhau y gallwn ddefnyddio statwsAmcan 1 i’r eithaf. Mae’r LlywodraethLafur, er gwaethaf sinigiaeth rhai eraill, wediennill y cyfle hwnnw. Nid wyf yn sicr a ywcratiau o siampaen wedi eu danfon eto, ondhoffwn atgoffa Dafydd am yr ymrwymiadaua roddwyd ar y pryd. Bu inni ennill statwsAmcan 1, a fydd yn gwneud gwahaniaethmawr i Gymru. Mae’n gyfle mawr, agobeithio y bydd yr Aelodau’n ymadael â’rdymuniad diffrwyth i wybod canlyniadproses nad yw wedi dechrau eto ac yndechrau meddwl ynghylch sut y gallwn ei roiar waith.

Mike German: In view of the strongdetermining role of the Westminster Cabinetand the deciding influence it will have inmatters of additionality and match fundingfor Wales, what steps have you taken toensure that this matter is being raised inCabinet now, has been raised in Cabinet inthe past and will be raised in Cabinet in thefuture? Can the Assembly have a guaranteeand an assurance from you that there will bea strong voice for Wales in the WestminsterCabinet in the months to come?

Mike German: Yng ngolwg rôl penderfynubwysig Cabinet San Steffan a’r dylanwaddrwy benderfynu a gaiff mewn materion sy’nymwneud ag ychwanegoldeb ac ariancyfatebol i Gymru, pa gamau yr ydych wedieu cymryd i sicrhau y caiff y mater hwn eigodi yn y Cabinet yn awr, ei fod wedi ei godiyn y Cabinet yn y gorffennol ac y caiff eigodi yn y Cabinet yn y dyfodol? A oes moddi’r Cynulliad gael gwarant a sicrwyddgennych y bydd llais cryf dros Gymru yngNghabinet San Steffan yn y misoedd i ddod?

The First Secretary: I assure you that I havedone everything to make sure that the new

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Yr wyf yn eichsicrhau fy mod wedi gwneud popeth i sicrhau

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situation that arises from the size of theObjective 1 area in Wales, which is a uniquefirst for any part of the United Kingdom, isfully understood by colleagues. It will betaken into account in the process I referredto. As long as I am a Member of the Cabinet,Wales will have the strongest possible voiceand I am certain that whatever decision istaken, Wales will have the strongest possiblevoice after I stand down from that Cabinet.This Assembly will have a strong voice inWhitehall and Westminster, and as FirstSecretary, I will ensure that it happens.Those processes are very important indeed.

bod fy nghyd-weithwyr yn llwyr ddeall ysefyllfa newydd sy’n codi oherwydd maint yrardal Amcan 1 yng Nghymru, sydd yn gampgyntaf unigryw i unrhyw ran o’r DeyrnasUnedig. Fe’i cymerir i ystyriaeth yn y brosesy cyfeiriais ati. Cyhyd ag y byddaf yn Aelodo’r Cabinet, bydd gan Gymru’r llais cryfafposibl ac yr wyf yn sicr, pa bynnagbenderfyniad a wneir, y bydd gan Gymru’rllais cryfaf posibl wedi imi adael y Cabinethwnnw. Bydd gan y Cynulliad lais cryf ynWhitehall ac yn San Steffan, ac fel PrifYsgrifennydd, byddaf yn sicrhau bodhynny’n digwydd. Mae’r prosesau hynny’nwirioneddol bwysig.

Cymorth i Fusnesau Cynhenid (Cwm Cynon)Support for Indigenous Business (Cynon Valley)

Q5 Christine Chapman: What measures isthe First Secretary undertaking to providecontinuing support for indigenous business inthe Cynon Valley? (OAQ294JS)

C5 Christine Chapman: Pa fesurau sydd ary gweill gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd i roicymorth parhaus i fusnesau cynhenid yngNghwm Cynon? (OAQ294JS)

The First Secretary: ‘Pathway toProsperity’ sets out a wide range of action toimprove support to small firms and promoteindigenous business development in theValleys area and in other parts of Wales. It isbacked by significant extra money this year,and improved co-ordination of businesssupport. Again, Objective 1 status willprovide a significant boost to regenerationand enterprise support measures within theValleys.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Mae’r ‘Ffordd iFfyniant’ yn cyflwyno amrediad eang ogamau i wella’r gefnogaeth i fusnesaubychain a hybu datblygiad busnesaucynhenid yn ardal y Cymoedd ac mewnrhannau eraill o Gymru. Fe gefnogir hynnyag arian ychwanegol sylweddol eleni, a gwellcydlynu ar gefnogaeth i fusnesau. Unwaitheto, bydd statws Amcan 1 yn rhoi hwbsylweddol i’r mesurau i adfywio a chynnalmentrau yn y Cymoedd.

Christine Chapman: That is encouraging.However, given that the number of the VATregistered enterprises in Rhondda CynonTaff has remained fairly static over the lastthree years according to the Welsh Officestatistics, what policies do you intend tointroduce in this Assembly to promote anenvironment of business growth andentrepreneurship in areas such as the CynonValley to allow an expansion of this sector,which will go some way to helping eradicatethe problem of social exclusion in theValleys—an aim which we have already setourselves to achieve?

Christine Chapman: Mae hynny’ngalonogol. Fodd bynnag, o ystyried bod nifery mentrau a gofrestrwyd ar gyfer TAW ynRhondda Cynon Taf wedi aros yn ei hunfanbron dros y tair blynedd diwethaf yn ôlystadegau’r Swyddfa Gymreig, pa bolisïau yrydych yn bwriadu eu cyflwyno yn yCynulliad hwn i hybu amgylchedd ar gyfertwf busnesau ac entrepreneuriaeth mewnardaloedd fel Cwm Cynon er mwyn caniatáui’r sector hwn ehangu, gan roi rhywfaint ogymorth i ddileu problem dieithrwchcymdeithasol yn y Cymoedd—nod yr ydymeisoes wedi ei gosod i ni’n hunain?

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The First Secretary: Business Connect,South East Wales TEC and the WDA haveappointed staff in each of the Valleys unitaryauthorities to help focus support on thedevelopment of indigenous businesses. Iagree that there is a need for that focus, and£83 million will be made available to backbusiness development in Wales in the currentfinancial year. Within that sum, the smallbusiness enterprise and support programmeis boosted by 18 per cent to £13 million,which will help up to 6,000 firms this year.That will benefit businesses in the CynonValley and other parts of the Valleys.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Mae Cyswllt Busnes,CHM De Ddwyrain Cymru a’r WDA wedipenodi staff ym mhob un o awdurdodauunedol y Cymoedd i helpu i gyfeirio’rgefnogaeth at ddatblygu busnesau cynhenid.Cytunaf fod angen y ffocws hwnnw, a bydd£83 miliwn ar gael i gefnogi datblygiadbusnesau yng Nghymru yn y flwyddynariannol gyfredol. O fewn y swm hwnnw,mae hwb o 18 y cant at £13 miliwn i’rrhaglen menter a chefnogaeth i fusnesaubach, a fydd yn helpu hyd at 6,000 ofusnesau eleni. Bydd hanny o fantais ifusnesau yng Nghwm Cynon a rhannau eraillo’r Cymoedd.

2:26 p.m.

Phil Williams: Are you aware that astatement in the Federation of SmallBusinesses’ manifesto urges the Assembly togive priority to establishing a developmentbank for Wales, which will concentrate onfunding indigenous businesses? Do you haveany plans for such a bank in the policy forreviving the economy of Wales and theValleys?

Phil Williams: A ydych yn ymwybodol boddatganiad ym maniffesto Ffederasiwn yBusnesau Bychain yn annog y Cynulliad i roiblaenoriaeth i sefydlu banc datblygu iGymru, a fydd yn canolbwyntio ar ariannubusnesau cynhenid? A oes gennych unrhywgynlluniau ar gyfer banc o’r fath yn y polisi iadfywio economi Cymru a’r Cymoedd?

The First Secretary: I am surprised that Phildid not refer to the Labour Party’s manifestoin passing. Attracting investment andensuring availability of money to supportenterprise, particularly, at the small end iscrucial. It is something that we wish topursue and I hope the Assembly will supportus.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Yr wyf yn synnu nadoedd Phil wedi cyfeirio at faniffesto’r BlaidLafur wrth fynd heibio. Mae denubuddsoddiad a sicrhau bod arian ar gael igefnogi mentrau, yn enwedig rhai bychain,yn hollbwysig. Mae’n rhywbeth yr ydym yndymuno ei ddilyn a gobeithio y bydd yCynulliad yn ein cefnogi.

Datganiad BusnesBusiness Statement

Andrew Davies: Details of business for thenext three weeks and supporting papers areon the Chamberweb. I draw your attention tothe election of the Members and Chair of theHouse Committee on Tuesday, 20 July. InBusiness Committee this morning, wediscussed the motion to note the draftmemorandum of understanding andoverarching concordats, which will bedeferred until the autumn. After Plenarytoday, I will arrange for a copy of the

Andrew Davies: Mae manylion y busnes argyfer y tair wythnos nesaf a’r dogfennauategol ar We’r Siambr. Yr wyf yn tynnu’chsylw at etholiad Aelodau a ChadeiryddPwyllgor y Tŷ ddydd Mawrth, 20Gorffennaf. Yn y Pwyllgor Busnes foreheddiw, bu inni drafod y cynnig i nodi’rdrafft o’r memorandwm cyd-ddealltwriaetha’r concordatiau trosfwaol, a gaiff ei ohiriotan yr hydref. Ar ôl y Sesiwn Llawn heddiw,byddaf yn trefnu i roi copi o’r datganiad ar y

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statement to be placed on the intranet andinternet.

fewnrwyd a’r rhyngrwyd.

The Presiding Officer: Is the BusinessStatement agreed?

Y Llywydd: A gytunir â’r DatganiadBusnes?

As there are 10 Members objecting to it, Iwill call on the Business Secretary to proposethe statement be adopted. I will then call oneMember from each group to respond,according to the Standing Order, beforecalling a vote.

Gan fod 10 o Aelodau’n ei wrthwynebu,galwaf ar y Trefnydd i gynnig derbyn ydatganiad. Wedyn byddaf yn galw ar unAelod o bob grŵp i ymateb, yn unol â’rRheolau Sefydlog, cyn galw pleidlais.

Andrew Davies: I propose that my businessstatement be adopted.

Andrew Davies: Yr wyf yn cynnig y bydd fynatganiad yn cael ei dderbyn.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Diolch Dafydd. Rhoddaisrybudd blaenorol ichi o’r pwynt yr wyf yndymuno’i godi ar y datganiad busnes.Dywedais hefyd wrth y Trefnydd athrefnyddion busnes y ddwy blaid arall fymod yn bwriadu gwneud hyn.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Thank you Dafydd. Igave you previous notice of the point that Iwish to raise on the business statement. I alsoinformed the Business Secretary and thebusiness secretaries of the other two partiesthat I intended to do so.

Mae gennyf bryder ynghylch y ffordd yrydym yn trin y dadleuon byr. Mae gennymddadl y prynhawn hwn ar brofion llygaid.Gan fod y dadleuon byr yn rhoi cyfle iAelodau y tu allan i’r Cabinet godi pynciaulleol neu ehangach, ni ddylai’r dadleuon hyngael eu defnyddio i drafod materion polisi, acyn aml iawn, materion polisi dadleuol fel ygwelsom yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf. Ymae nifer o’r materion hyn nid yn unig ynfaterion polisi ond yn faterion â goblygiadaucyllidol. Dylai Pwyllgorau’r Cynulliadystyried y materion hyn a defnyddio euhamser i drafod materion cyllid.

I am concerned about the way the shortdebates are conducted. We have one thisafternoon on eye tests. Since the shortdebates give Members outside the Cabinetthe opportunity to raise local or widersubjects, these debates should not be used todiscuss policy matters, which are oftencontentious policy matters as we have seenduring the last few weeks. A number of thesematters are not only matters of policy butmatters with budgetary implications. TheAssembly Committees should consider thesematters and use their time to discussbudgetary issues.

Gan mai dadleuon byr ydynt, nid oes rhaid i’rperson sydd yn cynnig y ddadl dderbynunrhyw ymyrraeth na sylw gan unrhywAelod arall. Ffars lwyr yw gadael i Aelodauo bleidiau eraill gael 30 eiliad neu funud iymateb i ddadl sydd o’r pwys mwyaf osafbwynt polisi. Er enghraifft, tynnwydcynnig ar y gwaharddiad ar gig eidion ar yrasgwrn yn ôl. Gwelsom mai mater i’rPwyllgor Amaethyddiaeth a DatblyguGwledig oedd hwnnw ac nid i ddadl hannerawr.

Since they are short debates, the personproposing the debate does not have to acceptany intervention or comment from anotherMember. It is a complete farce to allowMembers from other parties 30 seconds or aminute to answer a debate that is veryimportant from a policy point of view. Forexample, a proposal on beef on the bone banwas withdrawn. We saw that it was a matterfor the Agriculture and Rural DevelopmentCommittee and not for a half-hour debate.

Bu hefyd ddadl ar GMOs a heddiw ystyriwnbrofion ar lygaid. Nid dyna oedd bwriad y

There was also a debate on GMOs and todaywe will consider eye tests. That was not the

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dadleuon byr ac awgrymaf ein bod yn newidy Rheolau Sefydlog. Cyferiaf yn benodol atbaragraffau 6.35 a 6.36 a fyddai’n cyfyngu’rhawl i gynnig pwnc yn unig, yn hytrach nachynnig ar gyfer dadl. Byddai hynny’nosgoi’r angen i bleidleisio ar fater a ddylaifod yn gwestiwn o godi pwnc yn unig.Byddwn yn sicrhau mai pwrpas y ddadl fer, agynigiwyd yn wreiddiol gan GrŵpYmgynghorol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol,oedd codi pwnc i sylw’r Cynulliad neu’rLlywodraeth.

intention of the short debates and I suggestwe amend the Standing Orders. I refer, inparticular, to paragraphs 6.35 and 6.36,which would limit the right solely to proposea subject, rather than a motion for debate.That would obviate the need to vote on anissue that should only be a matter of raising asubject. We would then ensure that the shortdebate’s purpose, originally proposed by theNational Assembly Advisory Group, was tobring a subject to the attention of theAssembly or Government.

Gofynnaf yn ffurfiol i’r Trefnydd Busnes ynffurfiol sicrhau bod y mater hwn yn cael eidrafod yn y Pwyllgor Busnes gyda’r bwriado edrych ar newidiadau i’r Rheolau Sefydlog.Os yw’n rhoi’r addewid hwn, byddwn ninnaufel Plaid yn tynnu ein gwrthwynebiad i’rdatganiad busnes yn ôl. Yn y cyfamser, yrwyf yn galw ar gynrychiolwyr y pleidiaueraill yn wirfoddol i ddewis pwnc yn hytrachna chynnig ar gyfer dadleuon byr. Gwnafddatganiad cyhoeddus y bydd grŵp PlaidCymru yn ymatal mewn unrhyw ddadleuonbyr nes bydd cytundeb ar y mater. Gofynnaffelly am ymateb y Trefnydd Busnes i’rdatganiad hwn. Hoffwn ddatgan, er fy modyn cytuno ag egwyddor cynnig JennyRanderson heddiw ar brofion llygaid, byddPlaid Cymru yn ymatal nes bydd cytundeb yncael ei gynnig.

I formally ask the Business Secretaryformally to ensure that this matter isdiscussed in the Business Committee withthe intention of considering amendments inthe Standing Orders. If he makes thatcommitment, we, as a Party, will withdrawour objection to the business statement. Inthe meantime, I call on representatives of theother parties voluntarily to select a subjectrather than a proposal for short debates. Ihereby make a public statement that the PlaidCymru group will abstain in any short debateuntil there is agreement on this matter. Itherefore ask the Business Secretary for aresponse to this statement. I wish to statethat, although I agree with the principle ofJenny Randerson’s proposal on eye tests,Plaid Cymru will abstain until an agreementis put forward.

David Davies: On behalf of the Conservativegroup, I disagree with what the representativefor Plaid Cymru said. So far, the shortdebates have been the most interesting andlively parts of the Assembly debates,covering a variety of topics. We should takeevery opportunity to discuss a wide range ofissues. However, we do not feel that we cansupport the Government of Wales, becausethere is nothing in the business statementabout a proper debate on GMOs, whichclearly represent the Assembly’s mood at themoment. I will, therefore, abstain.

David Davies: Ar ran y grŵp Ceidwadol, yrwyf yn anghytuno â’r hyn a ddywedoddcynrychiolydd Plaid Cymru. Hyd yn hyn, ydadleuon byr yw’r rhannau mwyaf diddorol abywiog o ddadleuon y Cynulliad, ac maentwedi cwmpasu amrywiaeth o bynciau. Dylemfanteisio ar bob cyfle i drafod amrediad eango faterion. Fodd bynnag, nid ydym yn teimloy gallwn gefnogi Llywodraeth Cymru,oherwydd nid oes dim yn y DatganiadBusnes am ddadl iawn ar organebau aaddaswyd yn enetig, sydd yn amlwg ynadlewyrchu teimlad y Cynulliad ar y funud.Felly, byddaf yn ymatal.

Jenny Randerson: Although there is generalagreement that a short debate is not an idealway to give everyone the opportunity tovoice their views. Ieuan Wyn Jones makestoo much of the parallels with the House of

Jenny Randerson: Er bod cytundebcyffredinol nad yw dadl fer yn fforddddelfrydol i roi cyfle i bawb fynegi barn, maeIeuan Wyn Jones yn cyffelybu gormod âThŷ’r Cyffredin. Un o’r pethau yr ydym yn

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Commons. One of the things we hope to dohere is to plough a different furrow; tochange the way things are done. There is noreason why we cannot discuss weighty issuesand use the short debate to—shall we say—put down a marker. It would be unreasonableto expect the result of a short debate to be acommitment to spend vast amounts ofmoney. However, there should be a vote atthe end to provide an indicator to theExecutive and the Committees about theAssembly’s feelings on an issue. After avote, there could be an agreement to dealwith matters raised by short debate in theappropriate Subject Committee. That systemhas already worked well with some topics.There is no reason to restrict short debates tolocal issues. If we do, we will have a similarsystem to Westminster. There will be half adozen people listening to discussion on someesoteric topic or something that matters agreat deal to their constituents but has nosignificance outside their area. All partiesshould seriously consider the opportunityprovided by the short debate to raise issuesthat matter to them. The first short debatediscussed a very important issue, you couldnot have a bigger one—that of Europe.

gobeithio ei wneud yma yw torri cwyswahanol; newid y ffordd y gwneir pethau.Nid oes rheswm pam na allwn drafodmaterion pwysig a defnyddio’r ddadl fer—addywedwn ni—i osod cyfeirbwynt.Afresymol fyddai disgwyl i ddadl fer arwainat ymrwymiad i wario symiau anferth o arian.Fodd bynnag, fe ddylid cael pleidlais ar ydiwedd i roi arwydd i’r Adran Weithredol a’rPwyllgorau o deimladau’r Cynulliad arunrhyw fater. Ar ôl pleidlais, gellid caelcytundeb i ddelio â’r materion a godwyddrwy’r ddadl fer yn y Pwyllgor Pwnc priodol.Mae’r system honno eisoes wedi gweithio’ndda gyda rhai pynciau. Nid oes rheswm drosgyfyngu’r dadleuon byr i faterion lleol. Osgwnawn hynny, bydd gennym system debyg iun San Steffan. Bydd hanner dwsin o bobl yngwrando ar drafodaeth am ryw bwnc esoterigneu’i gilydd sydd o bwys mawr i’whetholwyr ond sydd heb unrhyw arwyddocâdy tu allan i’w hardal. Dylai’r holl bleidiau roiystyriaeth ddifrifol i’r cyfle a roddir gan yddadl fer i godi materion sydd o bwys iddynt.Fe drafodwyd mater pwysig iawn yn y ddadlfer gyntaf, ni allech gael un mwy—sefEwrop.

The Presiding Officer: Before I put thematter to a vote as I am required to do underStanding Order No. 5.4, I call the BusinessSecretary to respond.

Y Llywydd: Cyn imi roi’r mater i bleidlaisfel y mae’n ofynnol imi wneud o dan ReolSefydlog Rhif 5.4, galwaf ar y Trefnydd iymateb.

Andrew Davies: May I thank Ieuan WynJones for raising this issue. My partysympathises with his point. We feel that theway the short debates have been conductedare not in the spirit of the original proposallaid down by the National AssemblyAdvisory Group. The short debate is ournearest equivalent to an Adjournment debate,which is an opportunity for back benchMembers to raise issues of concern to whicha Minister responds. So far, short debateshave been conducted on highly contentiousissues, which often have major budgetary andpolicy-making implications for theAssembly. That is not the most appropriateway of raising those issues. Therefore, Iassure Ieuan that, as Business Secretary, Iwill refer this to the next meeting of theBusiness Committee, where we will discuss

Andrew Davies: Hoffwn ddiolch i IeuanWyn Jones am godi’r mater hwn. Mae fymhlaid yn cydymdeimlo â’r pwynt syddganddo. Teimlwn nad yw’r modd ycynhaliwyd y dadleuon byr yn unol ag ysbrydy cynnig gwreiddiol a gyflwynwyd gan GrŵpYmgynghorol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Yddadl fer yw’r peth sy’n cyfateb agosaf iddadl Ohirio, sydd yn gyfle i Aelodau’rmeinciau cefn godi materion o ddiddordeb ybydd Gweinidog yn ymateb iddynt. Hyd ynhyn, cynhaliwyd dadleuon byr ar fateriondadleuol iawn, sydd yn aml â goblygiadaumawr i’r Cynulliad o ran y gyllideb neu luniopolisïau. Nid honno yw’r ffordd fwyafpriodol i godi’r materion hynny. Felly, yrwyf yn sicrhau Ieuan y byddaf, fel Trefnydd,yn cyfeirio hyn at gyfarfod nesaf y PwyllgorBusnes, lle y byddwn yn trafod y cyfarfod

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this meeting with the intention of reaching arapid conclusion along the lines yousuggested

hwn gyda’r bwriad o gyrraedd ateb o’r matha awgrymwyd gennych.

A vote was held by show of hands.Business Statement adopted.

Cynhaliwyd pleidlais drwy ddangos dwylo.Derbyniwyd y Datganiad Busnes.

2:36 p.m.

Gofal PlantChildcare

The Secretary for Health and SocialServices (Jane Hutt): I propose that theAssembly:

Yr Ysgrifennydd dros Iechyd aGwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Jane Hutt):Cynigiaf fod y Cynulliad:

notes the importance of childcare forfamilies and children in Wales, incontributing to economic growth,employment creation and retention, to familyhealth and well-being, to better educationaloutcomes and to the prevention of socialexclusion;

yn nodi pwysigrwydd gofal plant ar gyferteuluoedd a phlant yng Nghymru o rancyfrannu at dwf economaidd, creu a chadwswyddi, iechyd a lles teuluoedd, canlyniadauaddysgol gwell ac atal dieithrwchcymdeithasol;

notes the conclusions and recommendationsof the Welsh Affairs Committee on Childcarein Wales;

yn nodi casgliadau ac argymhellionAdroddiad y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig arOfal Plant yng Nghymru;

remits the Report to the Executive Committeeand then to the appropriate AssemblyCommittees for consideration on how theReport’s recommendations might be takenforward by the Assembly.

yn cyfeirio’r Adroddiad i’r PwyllgorGweithredol ac yna i Bwyllgorau priodol yCynulliad er mwyn iddynt ystyried sut y gally Cynulliad fwrw ymlaen ag argymhellion yrAdroddiad.

The Presiding Officer: I have selected theamendment standing in the name of JennyRanderson, which will be proposed by MikeGerman.

Y Llywydd: Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliant awnaed yn enw Jenny Randerson, a gynigirgan Mike German.

Jane Hutt: This is an important debate and Iam very pleased to be opening it for severalreasons. First, I was director of Chwarae Teg,which was set up to expand the role ofwomen in the Welsh work force. Lack ofchildcare was a major issue that we weretackling. I am also a working parent and aworking politician. My children and I havebenefited from a wild—I mean wide—rangeof childcare, though I can assure you that itwas wild on occasions trying to juggle homeand family responsibilities with work.However, the wide range of childcareincluded a child minder, a playgroup and a

Jane Hutt: Mae hon yn ddadl bwysig ac yrwyf yn falch iawn o’i hagor am sawlrheswm. Yn gyntaf, yr oeddwn yngyfarwyddwr ar Chwarae Teg, a sefydlwyd iehangu rôl benywod yng ngweithlu Cymru.Yr oedd diffyg gofal plant yn fater pwysig yroeddem yn ymdrin ag ef. Yr wyf hefyd ynrhiant sy’n gweithio ac yn wleidydd sy’ngweithio. Mae fy mhlant a minnau wedi elwaar amrediad eang o ofal plant a oedd hefydyn wyllt ar brydiau pan oedd raid cydbwysocyfrifoldebau’r cartref a’r teulu a gwaith.Fodd bynnag, yr oedd yr amrediad eang oofal plant yn cynnwys gwarchodwr, grŵp

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day nursery. With other parents, I had to setup an after school club in our local schoolwhen my child reached the age of five. Thisis the experience of many people and I knowthere is a lot of experience in this Chamber. Iam conscious that I had an income and theknowledge, experience and ability to helpset up an after school club for my childrenand to help ensure that I had the best qualitychildcare, for which I could help to pay. Instarting our consideration in the Assemblyabout childcare we have to think of theparents who do not have the ability andfinances to do that.

chwarae a meinthrinfa ddydd. Gyda rhienieraill, bu’n rhaid imi sefydlu clwb ar ôl ysgolyn ein hysgol leol pan gyrhaeddodd fymhlentyn bump oed. Dyma brofiad llawer obobl a gwn fod llawer o brofiad o hyn yn ySiambr hon. Yr wyf yn ymwybodol bodgennyf incwm a’r wybodaeth, y profiad a’rgallu i sefydlu clwb ar ôl ysgol i’m plant ac isicrhau ei fod yn cynnig gofal plant o’ransawdd gorau, y gallwn helpu i daluamdano. Wrth inni ddechrau ystyried gofalplant yn y Cynulliad rhaid inni feddwl am yrhieni nad oes ganddynt mo’r gallu a’r arian iwneud hynny.

It is very important that childcare is on thepolitical agenda. For many years, it wasregarded as a women’s issue. It is animportant policy issue and an economic,social and educational issue. However, firstand foremost it is about our children—thequality of care for our children and theirfuture.

Mae’n bwysig iawn bod gofal plant ar yragenda gwleidyddol. Am flynyddoedd lawer,fe’i hystyriwyd yn fater i fenywod. Mae’nfater polisi pwysig ac yn fater economaidd,cymdeithasol ac addysgol. Fodd bynnag, yngyntaf oll mae’n ymwneud â’n plant—ansawdd y gofal i’n plant a’u dyfodol.

We can be delighted that the Welsh AffairsCommittee undertook this inquiry onchildcare in Wales. I was also fortunate to bean adviser to that Committee. We receivedevidence from over 50 organisations from thevoluntary, public and private sectors. Wealso saw facilities, talked to child minders,visited playgroups, day nurseries and afterschool clubs throughout Wales. We shouldthank the Welsh Affairs Committee forpreparing the way for the Assembly to lookat this thoroughly. The report contains wide-ranging conclusions and recommendations,to which we have to give careful thought, andso we feel that the best thing would be toremit it to all the relevant AssemblyCommittees. An amendment has been tabled.It raises a number of issues, which need tobe considered carefully by the relevantCommittees. We accept the amendment onthe basis that it would be remitted with ourmotion to the Committees for their fullconsideration.

Gallwn ymhyfrydu yn y ffaith fod y PwyllgorMaterion Cymreig wedi ymgymryd â’rymchwiliad hwn i ofal plant yng Nghymru.Yr oeddwn hefyd yn ffodus o gael bod ynymgynghorydd i’r Pwyllgor hwnnw.Derbyniasom dystiolaeth oddi wrth fwy na50 o gyrff yn y sectorau gwirfoddol,cyhoeddus a phreifat. Hefyd gwelsomgyfleusterau, bu inni siarad â gwarchodwyr,ac ymweld â meithrinfeydd dydd a chlybiauar ôl ysgol drwy Gymru. Dylem ddiolch i’rPwyllgor Materion Cymreig am baratoi’rffordd i’r Cynulliad edrych ar hyn yndrwyadl. Mae’r adroddiad yn cynnwyscasgliadau ac argymhellion eang, y bydd raidinni roi ystyriaeth ofalus iddynt, a’n teimlad,felly, yw mai’r peth gorau fyddai ei gyfeirio iBwyllgorau perthnasol y Cynulliad. Maegwelliant wedi ei gyflwyno. Mae’n codi nifero faterion, y bydd raid i’r Pwyllgorauperthnasol roi ystyriaeth ofalus iddynt. Yrydym yn derbyn y gwelliant ar y sail ybyddai’n cael ei gyfeirio gyda’n cynnig i’rPwyllgorau i’w ystyried yn llawn.

It is vital to recognise that we are consideringa report of the Welsh Affairs Committee,which will obviously discuss the matter withother Government departments. Many issues

Mae’n hollbwysig sylweddoli ein bod ynystyried adroddiad gan y Pwyllgor MaterionCymreig a fydd, wrth reswm, yn trafod ymater gydag adrannau eraill o’r Llywodraeth.

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relate to Wales and to our powers in theAssembly, but others of a more generalapplication relate to other powers and theywill also have to be considered. I hope thatthe Select Committee and the relevantAssembly Committees will take on board ourconsiderations and this debate.

Mae llawer o’r materion yn ymwneud âChymru a’n pwerau yn y Cynulliad, ond maeeraill sy’n fwy cyffredinol o ran eucymhwysiad ac yn ymwneud â phwerau erailla bydd raid ystyried y rheini hefyd.Gobeithio y bydd y Pwyllgor Dethol aPhwyllgorau perthnasol y Cynulliad yncymryd ein sylwadau a’r ddadl hon iystyriaeth.

This childcare strategy brings together theprinciples of partnership and of promotingequality of opportunity. It goes to the heart ofour social and economic agenda, which wediscussed last week when we talked aboutsocial inclusion. It is vital that, whendebating the childcare strategy both todayand in the Committees, we consider how wecan ensure that childcare provides anopportunity for all our children and parentsin Wales. We recognise that affordability andquality are key issues that have to be takenon board. In addition, a lot of work has beendone to prepare the way. We have a Welshchildcare strategy and local authorities havetaken a lead in developing local childcarepartnerships.

Mae’r strategaeth gofal plant hon yn cyfunoegwyddorion partneriaeth a hybu cyflecyfarfal. Mae hefyd yn mynd at wraidd einhagenda cymdeithasol ac economaidd, adrafodwyd gennym yr wythnos diwethaf panoeddem yn ymdrin â dieithrwchcymdeithasol. Mae’n hanfodol, wrth drafod ystrategaeth gofal plant heddiw ac yn yPwyllgorau, ein bod yn ystyried sut y gallwnsicrhau bod gofal plant yn darparu cyfle i’nholl blant ac i’n holl rieni yng Nghymru. Yrydym yn cydnabod bod fforddiadwyedd acansawdd yn faterion allweddol y bydd raid euhystyried. Yn ogystal â hynny, fe wnaedllawer o waith i baratoi’r ffordd. Maegennym strategaeth gofal plant i Gymru acmae’r awdurdodau lleol wedi arwain wrthddatblygu partneriaethau gofal plant lleol.

I would like to make three points. First, thereis an economic agenda. Clearly, the quality,accessibility and affordability of childcare iscritical for children and parents and that is aneconomic point for Wales. It is obviouslyimportant that we ensure that lack ofchildcare is not a barrier to parents’ ability towork or to return to training and learningopportunities. We discussed this a few weeksago when Tom Middlehurst referred to thefact that childcare is an important part of theinfrastructure of colleges, further education,higher education and lifelong learning. Oneof the first crèches which I helped to set upwas at the South Glamorgan Women’sWorkshop. We received European funding toestablish the work force which trainedwomen in computing, technology, andelectronics. That was one of the first crèchesof its kind in Wales that was supported byEurope. We know we now have greateropportunities. The New Opportunities Fundwill bring in a lot of money through thelottery. That can be matched by European

Hpffwn wneud tri phwynt. Yn gyntaf, maeyna agenda economaidd. Mae’n amlwg bodansawdd, hygyrchedd a fforddiadwyeddgofal plant o’r pwys mwyaf i blant a rhieni acmae hynny’n bwynt economaidd i Gymru.Mae’n amlwg ei bod yn bwysig inni sicrhaunad yw diffyg gofal plant yn rhwystro rhienirhag gweithio neu ddychwelyd i gyfleoeddhyfforddi a dysgu. Bu inni drafod hynychydig wythnosau’n ôl pan gyfeiriodd TomMiddlehurst at y ffaith bod gofal plant ynrhan bwysig o isadeiledd colegau, addysgbellach, addysg uwch a dysgu ar hyd oes. Uno’r meithrinfeydd y cynorthwyais i’w sefydluoedd honno yng Ngweithdy Benywod DeMorgannwg. Derbyniasom gyllidEwropeaidd i sefydlu’r gweithlu a hyfforddaifenywod mewn cyfrifiaduro, technoleg, acelectroneg. Honno oedd un o’r meithrinfeyddcyntaf o’i bath yng Nghymru a gefnogwydgan Ewrop. Mae gennym gyfleoedd mwybellach. Bydd y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newyddyn dod â llawer o arian drwy’r lotri. Gellircael arian i gyfateb iddo o’r cronfeydd

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structural fund money, so there areopportunities for new funding to help us todevelop this childcare strategy.

strwythurol Ewropeaidd, felly mae ynagyfleoedd i gael arian newydd i’n helpu iddatblygu’r strategaeth gofal plant hon.

Secondly, the Assembly needs to helpdevelop the childcare strategy with theprinciples of social inclusion and equality ofopportunity. That means that, throughoutWales, we need to look at the needs of blackand ethnic minority children and of disabledchildren, and the needs of rural communities,which are very different from our urbancommunities. We need to take account of theexisting vast range of facilities in Walesinvolving a partnership between childminders, playgroups, day nurseries, schools,local authorities, the voluntary sector andemployers. That employers also have a roleto play in supporting childcare is animportant point in the report.

Yn ail, mae angen i’r Cynulliad helpu iddatblygu strategaeth gofal plant âchynhwysiant cymdeithasol a chyfle cyfartalyn egwyddorion iddi. Mae hynny’n golygu,drwy Gymru, fod angen inni edrych aranghenion plant mewn lleiafrifoedd ethnig adu a phlant anabl, ac anghenion cymunedaugwledig, sydd yn wahanol iawn i’ncymunedau trefol. Rhaid inni gymryd iystyriaeth yr amrediad eang o gyfleusterausydd yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd sy’ncynnwys partneriaeth rhwng gwarchodwyrplant, grwpiau chwarae, meithrinfeydd dydd,ysgolion, awdurdodau lleol, y sectorgwirfoddol a chyflogwyr. Pwynt pwysig ynyr adroddiad yw bod gan gyflogwyr rôl i’wchwarae wrth gefnogi gofal plant.

Finally, we must consider childcare as asource of employment in Wales. It providesjobs and careers and is part of the new dealthrough encouraging young people to work inchildcare. The National Assembly for Walesshould recognise childcare as the future forour children, for employment, for lifelonglearning and for creating opportunities thatpeople in some communities have not had.Local partnerships and Committees in theAssembly will give this report on thechildcare strategy a very good debate. I amglad it is at the top of our policy agenda, thatwe are not marginalising it and saying thatthis is just an equal opportunities issue or awomen’s issue. It is a policy issue, an issuefor parents and children and an economic,social and educational issue. We should takethe matter forward through a lively debatetoday and than remit it to all our Committeesfor appropriate and full discussion.

Yn olaf, rhaid inni ystyried gofal plant felffynhonnell cyflogaeth yng Nghymru. Mae’ndarparu swyddi a gyrfaoedd ac yn rhan o’rFargen Newydd drwy annog pobl ifanc iweithio mewn gofal plant. Dylai CynulliadCenedlaethol Cymru gydnabod gofal plantfel y dyfodol i’n plant, i gyflogaeth, i ddysguar hyd oes ac i greu cyfleoedd nad yw poblmewn rhai cymunedau wedi eu cael. Bydd ypartneriaethau lleol a’r Pwyllgorau yn yCynulliad yn cynnal dadl dda iawn ar yradroddiad hwn ar y strategaeth gofal plant.Yr wyf yn falch ei fod ar ben ein hagendapolisi, ac nad ydym yn ei roi o’r neilltu ac yndweud nad yw ond yn fater cyfle cyfartalneu’n fater i fenywod. Mae’n fater polisi, ynfater i rieni a phlant ac yn fater economaidd,cymdeithasol ac addysgol. Dylemddatblygu’r mater drwy ddadl fywiog heddiwac wedyn ei gyfeirio i’n holl Bwyllgorau i’wdrafod yn llawn ac yn briodol.

Michael German: I propose the followingamendment to the motion:

Michael German: Cynigiaf y gwelliantcanlynol i’r cynnig:

after the second paragraph, following‘Childcare in Wales; and’, insert:

ar ôl yr ail baragraff, yn dilyn ‘Gofal Plantyng Nghymru; a’, ychwaneger:

in particular yn arbennig

recognises that for a quality childcare system yn cydnabod, er mwyn ei gwneud yn bosibl

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to be available to all throughout Wales,especially to the most disadvantagedfamilies, a significant additional financialinvestment will be required;

darparu system gofal plant o safon uchel ibawb yng Nghymru, yn enwedig i’rteuluoedd mwyaf difreintiedig, fod angenbuddsoddiad ariannol ychwanegolsylweddol;

believes that much of this additionalinvestment could come from EuropeanStructural Funds, if appropriate matchfunding is available;

yn credu y gallai llawer o’r buddsoddiadychwanegol hwn ddod o’r CronfeyddStrwythurol Ewropeaidd, os bydd ariancyfatebol ar gael;

believes that appropriately funded childcarearrangements must be an integral part oflifelong learning opportunities;

yn credu bod rhaid i drefniadau gofal plantwedi eu hariannu’n briodol fod yn rhanannatod o gyfleoedd dysgu ar hyd oes;

emphasises the importance of working inpartnership with the voluntary sector toachieve these aims.

yn pwysleisio pwysigrwydd gweithio mewnpartneriaeth â’r sector gwirfoddol igyflawni’r amcanion hyn.

I am pleased that this amendment will formpart of the full motion and will be discussedin the Committees. Part of the purpose oftabling it today was to put down somemarkers about what must happen in financingthe childcare strategy for Wales and its futuredirection. I hope that the amendment willstrengthen the motion and give someindicators about where we might look in thefuture.

Yr wyf yn falch y bydd y gwelliant hwn ynrhan o’r cynnig llawn ac y caiff ei drafod yny Pwyllgorau. Rhan o’r pwrpas o’i gyflwynoheddiw oedd gosod rhai cyfeirbwyntiauynghylch yr hyn fydd yn angenrheidiol ermwyn ariannu’r strategaeth gofal plant iGymru a’i chyfeiriad yn y dyfodol. Gobeithioy bydd y gwelliant yn cryfhau’r cynnig ac ynrhoi rhai awgrymiadau ynghylch lle y gallemedrych yn y dyfodol.

My Liberal Democrat colleagues and Iwelcome many aspects of this childcarereport. It appears that there is at last seriousjoined-up thinking on the implications ofchildcare provision. The link has now beenestablished between economic activity andthe web of cultural and social factors thatprevent its development. We in thisAssembly must ensure that the link is notbroken in our thinking. However, we will notbe able to tackle the underlying problem ofhigh levels of economic inactivity and lowskills, unless we take action now to put inplace the financial regime to support thesechanges. Joined-up thinking requires joined-up funding and, as the Welsh AffairsCommittee concludes:

Yr wyf fi a’m cyd-weithwyr DemocrataiddRhyddfrydol yn croesawu llawer agwedd aryr adroddiad hwn ar ofal plant. Mae’nymddangos o’r diwedd fod yma ystyriaethgyfunedig ddifrifol o oblygiadau darpariaethgofal plant. Mae’r cysylltiad wedi ei sefydlubellach rhwng gweithgaredd economaidd a’rgwead o ffactorau diwylliannol achymdeithasol sy’n rhwystro ei ddatblygiad.Rhaid i ni yn y Cynulliad hwn sicrhau nafydd y cysylltiad yn cael ei dorri yn einmeddwl. Fodd bynnag, ni fyddwn yn galluymdrin â phroblem waelodol y lefelau uchelo anweithgaredd economaidd a medrau isel,oni weithredwn yn awr drwy sefydlu’rgyfundrefn ariannol i gefnogi’r newidiadauhyn. Mae meddwl cyfunedig yn gofynariannu cyfunedig ac, fel y dywed y PwyllgorMaterion Cymreig wrth derfynu:

‘Government must put its money where itsmouth is.’

‘Government must put its money where itsmouth is.’

2:46 p.m.

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The European funding provides us with aunique, window of opportunity to underpinWales’ economic recovery and we mustaccept that childcare is a fundamentalkeystone to that recovery. It is also critical tothe success of regeneration strategies. Youcannot revitalise a community, socially oreconomically, without enabling people,particularly women, to be ushered back intothe work place. We all accept that thestrategic development of childcare policiesrequires an integrated approach, involvingthe Assembly, local government and privateand voluntary sectors, if our objective todeliver affordable and sustainable childcarein Wales’ disadvantaged communities is tobe achieved.

Mae’r cyllid Ewropeaidd yn rhoi cyfleunigryw inni ategu adferiad economaiddCymru a rhaid inni dderbyn bod gofal plantyn gonglfaen hanfodol yn yr adferiadhwnnw. Mae hefyd yn hollbwysig ilwyddiant y strategaethau adfywio. Ni allwchadfywio cymuned, yn gymdeithasol neu’neconomaidd, heb alluogi pobl, yn enwedigbenywod, i gael eu hebrwng yn ôl i’r llegwaith. Yr ydym oll yn derbyn bod datblygustrategol ar bolisïau gofal plant yn gofyn dullgweithredu integreiddiedig, yn cynnwys yCynulliad, llywodraeth leol a’r sectoraupreifat a gwirfoddol, os ydym i gyflawni’rnod o gyflenwi gofal plant fforddiadwy achynaliadwy yng nghymunedau difreintiedigCymru.

It will also need to go further. Parents, forinstance, will need to improve their skills andtheir earning potential to enable them to paythe fees required for quality childcarefacilities. The potential market for privatechildcare provision in Wales is shrinking, aswitnessed by the impact on many playgroupsin Wales. The part-time provision withinstate nursery schools has paradoxicallythrown up a new set of problems—how toprovide wrap-around care—so that full-timeprovision in reality is a major challenge. Bycomparison, in low income communities freestate provision may be the only alternative tono provision at all. The lack of qualitychildcare provision prevents women and thesocially excluded from taking advantage oftraining opportunities. Current funding ofthe further education sector in Wales meansthat outreach training is a luxury that cannotbe afforded on a large scale. Furthereducation budgets have been clawed backand low cost or free childcare is largely outof reach within the colleges’ existingfunding. Added to this, the loss ofdiscretionary awards from local educationauthorities makes it difficult for furthereducation students to live, let alone meet thecosts of childcare. Private sector nurseriesare under pressure because school provisionis expanding. There is space for everyone.There is scope for more development.School provision is not full-time and all daychildcare is needed for those working andthose going back to work—not just a few

Bydd raid iddo fynd ymhellach hefyd. Erenghraifft, bydd angen i rieni wella eumedrau a’u potensial i ennill cyflog i’wgalluogi i dalu’r ffïoedd angenrheidiol argyfer cyfleusterau gofal plant o ansawdd da.Mae’r farchnad ddichonol i’r ddarpariaethgofal plant breifat yng Nghymru yncrebachu, fel y gwelir yn yr effaith ar lawer ogrwpiau chwarae yng Nghymru. Mae’rddarpariaeth ran-amser o fewn ysgolionmeithrin gwladol, yn baradocsaidd, wedi creuset newydd o broblemau—sut i ddarparugofal amgylchynol—felly, mewn gwirionedd,mae darpariaeth lawn-amser yn sialens fawr.O gymharu â hyn, gallai’r ddarpariaethwladol ddi-dâl mewn cymunedau incwm iselbod yn unig ddewis yn lle dim darpariaeth ogwbl. Mae’r diffyg darpariaeth o ofal plant oansawdd da yn rhwystro benywod a’r rhai addieithriwyd yn gymdeithasol rhag manteisioar gyfleoedd hyfforddi. Mae’r ariannucyfredol ar y sector addysg bellach yngNghymru yn golygu bod hyfforddiant allanolyn foethusrwydd na ellir ei fforddio ar raddfafawr. Mae cyllidebau addysg bellach wedi eubachu’n ôl ac mae gofal plant cost-isel neuddi-dâl y tu hwnt i gyrraedd i raddau helaetho fewn cyllid presennol y colegau. Ar benhynny, mae colli’r dyfarndaliadau dewisoloddi wrth awdurdodau addysg lleol yn eigwneud yn anodd i fyfyrwyr addysg bellachfyw, heb sôn am dalu costau gofal plant. Maemeithrinfeydd y sector preifat dan bwysauam fod y ddarpariaeth mewn ysgolion ynehangu. Mae lle i bawb. Mae yna gyfle ar

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hours a day. Above all, the partnership foreconomic revival must include the voluntarysector and not just make symbolic noisesabout its involvement.

gyfer rhagor o ddatblygu. Nid yw’rddarpariaeth yn yr ysgolion yn llawn-amserac mae angen gofal plant drwy’r dydd ar yrhai sy’n gweithio neu’n dychwelyd iwaith—nid ychydig oriau’r diwrnod. Yn fwyna dim, rhaid i’r bartneriaeth ar gyferadfywio economaidd gynnwys y sectorgwirfoddol ac nid gwneud synau symbolaiddam ei gyfraniad.

The new European funding provides the keyto unlock these developments, if the matchfunding can be achieved. Ron Davies told uslast week that we needed over £300 millionover three years—a view that he said was notsupported by the Cabinet. Wales has only£35 million in the kitty. That is a big gap tobridge. We must not stop planning while thefight for match funding goes on. The comingdebate on the National Strategy documentmust find satisfactory solutions to all of theseproblems. Childcare must be a keycomponent in the plan for economic growth,and perhaps we should take the lead here byconsidering carefully the provision ofchildcare facilities. We should consider theprovision of childcare facilities for Membersand staff of the National Assembly. Atpresent we are seen as paying lip service tothe family-friendly approach recommendedto us. It may be time for us to take action toput our own house in order.

Mae’r ariannu Ewropeaidd newydd yn rhoi’rallwedd i ddatgloi’r datblygiadau hyn, osgellir sicrhau’r arian cyfatebol. Feddywedodd Ron Davies wrthym yr wythnosdiwethaf fod arnom angen dros £300 miliwndros dair blynedd—barn nad oedd y Cabinetyn ei chefnogi, meddai ef. Dim ond £35miliwn sydd gan Gymru yn y gronfa. Maehynny’n fwlch mawr i’w gau. Ni ddylemroi’r gorau i gynllunio wrth i’r frwydr drosarian cyfatebol fynd rhagddi. Rhaid i’r ddadlsydd i ddod ar ddogfen y StrategaethGenedlaethol ganfod atebion boddhaol i bobun o’r problemau hyn. Rhaid i ofal plant fodyn rhan annatod o’r cynllun ar gyfer twfeconomaidd, ac efallai y dylem roi arweiniadyma drwy ystyried y ddarpariaeth ogyfleusterau gofal plant yn ofalus. Dylemystyried darparu cyfleusterau gofal plant argyfer Aelodau a staff y CynulliadCenedlaethol. Ar hyn o bryd fe’n gwelir felrhai sy’n talu gwasanaeth gwefusau i’r dullgweithredu o blaid teuluoedd aargymhellwyd i ni. Efallai ei bod yn brydinni weithredu i roi trefn ar ein tŷ ein hunain.

This Assembly must be bold enough to statethat childcare will be one of the priorities forEuropean funding and that it will be seen asan essential cornerstone to encourage widerparticipation in economic activity. Thestrategy for childcare will involve a widerange of partnerships. It will now be up tolocal childcare partnerships and individualproject teams to prepare imaginative bids forfunding. Six years ahead offer a window ofopportunity to transform not only childcarebut the whole economic climate in Wales,particularly in areas of most disadvantage.To get maximum benefit from the availableEuropean funding, this work must start now.

Rhaid i’r Cynulliad hwn fod yn ddigon eofn iddatgan y bydd gofal plant yn un o’rblaenoriaethau ar gyfer ariannu Ewropeaiddac y’i hystyrir yn gonglfaen hanfodol i annogcyfranogiad ehangach mewn gweithgareddeconomaidd. Bydd y strategaeth gofal plantyn cynnwys amrediad eang o bartneriaethau.Lle’r partneriaethau gofal plant a’r timauprojectau unigol yn awr fydd paratoiceisiadau dyfeisgar am ariannu; cynnig cyfleymhen chwe blynedd i weddnewid gofalplant a hefyd yr holl hinsawdd economaiddyng Nghymru, yn enwedig yn yr ardaloeddmwyaf difreintiedig. Er mwyn cael y buddmwyaf o’r ariannu Ewropeaidd sydd ar gael,rhaid i’r gwaith hwn ddechrau’n awr.

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Gareth Jones: A gaf i ddatgan fyngwerthfawrogiad o’r ffaith fod yLlywodraeth yn rhoi sylw buan a theilwng iaddysg-ofal a’i bod felly’n cydnabod bod yprofiadau a gaiff plentyn yn ystod y cyfnodffurfiannol cynnar yn dyngedfennol o ran eiragolygon weddill ei oes. Croesawaf hefyd yffaith fod y Llywodraeth, drwy’r cynnig syddgerbron, yn cydnabod y berthynas rhwngargaeledd gofal plant i deuluoedd a phlantyng Nghymru a thwf economaidd, creu achadw swyddi, iechyd a lles teuluol, gwellcanlyniadau addysgol ac atal dieithrwchcymdeithasol. Yr ydym ninnau fel plaidwedi rhoi sylw arbennig i’r gwelliant adaethom i’r casgliad fod yr eitemau hyn ynholl bwysig. Maent yn eitemau a ddylai fodyn y ddadl beth bynnag. Yr wyf yn falch oglywed Jane yn dweud bod yr eitemau syddyn y gwelliant yn cael eu cyfeirio i’rPwyllgorau Pwnc. Yr ydym yn croesawuhynny ac felly’n cefnogi’r cynnig.

Gareth Jones: May I first of all state myappreciation of the fact that the Governmentis giving early and due attention to edu-care,and that it therefore recognises that theexperiences of a child during the earlyformative years are crucial to its lifetimeprospects. I also welcome the fact that theGovernment, through this motion, recognisesthe relationship between the availability ofchildcare for families and children in Walesand economic growth, creating and keepingjobs, health and family welfare, bettereducational results and the prevention ofsocial exclusion. We as a party have paidparticular attention to the amendment and wehave come to the conclusion that these itemsare all-important. They are items that shouldhave been included in the debate anyway. Iam glad to hear Jane saying that the items inthe amendment will be referred to theSubject Committees. We welcome that andtherefore support the amendment.

Hoffwn fanteisio ar y cyfle i ganolbwyntio arrai agweddau sydd o bwys i ni fel plaid. Ynsicr yr ydym wedi ystyried gofal plant ynfanwl iawn. O ddarllen adroddiad yPwyllgor Materion Cymreig ar ofal plant yngNghymru ac, yn fwy perthnasol, y dystiolaetha gyflwynwyd i’r Pwyllgor gangynrychiolwyr o wahanol sefydliadau sy’nddylanwadol yn y maes, y mae’n gwblamlwg ei fod yn faes sy’n teilyngu’rflaenoriaeth uchaf. Mae’n deg cydnabod agwerthfawrogi’r gwaith da sy’n cael eiwneud ledled Cymru, yn enwedig ganunigolion a grwpiau neu fudiadau o’r sectorgwirfoddol, dan amgylchiadau anodd iawn.Mae diffyg cyllido cyson a chynaladwy ynperi ansicrwydd a diffyg hyder o rancynllunio strategaeth ar gyfer y dyfodol.

I would like to take the opportunity toconcentrate on some aspects that areimportant to us as a party. We have certainlygiven detailed attention to childcare. Fromreading the report of the Welsh SelectCommittee on Childcare in Wales and, morerelevantly, the evidence presented to theCommittee by representatives from differentinstitutions which are influential in the field,it is obvious that it is an area which deservesthe highest priority. It is fair to recogniseand appreciate the good work that is beingdone throughout Wales, particularly byindividuals and groups or movements in thevoluntary sector, under very difficultcircumstances. Lack of regular andsustainable funding causes uncertainty and alack of confidence from the standpoint ofstrategic planning for the future.

Mae’n galondid sylweddoli bod rhai o’runigolion hynny a gyflwynodd dystiolaeth i’rPwyllgor bellach yn aelodau allweddol o’nCynulliad. Byddant yn awyddus iawn iymateb yn gadarnhaol i adfer sefyllfa sy’nprysur waethygu yng Nghymru am nifer oresymau. Yn sicr, o ddarllen tystiolaeth yrunigolion hyn ac o ystyried eu cyfranogiada’u profiad yn y maes, mae eu dirnadaeth owendidau’r gyfundrefn addysg-ofal

It is encouraging to realise that some of theindividuals who presented evidence to theCommittee are by now key Members of ourAssembly. They will be keen to respondpositively to restore a situation that is fastdeteriorating in Wales for several reasons.Certainly, from reading these individuals’evidence and considering their participationand experience in the field, theirunderstanding of the weaknesses of the

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bresennol ac o’r diffygion amlwg yn yddogfen ‘Strategaeth Genedlaethol GofalPlant yng Nghymru’ a gyflwynwyd ymMehefin 1998, yn peri i mi feddwl y gallwnlwyddo i ddatblygu strategaeth a chynllungweithredu a fydd yn fwy perthnasol abuddiol i’n teuluoedd ni yng Nghymru.

existing edu-care system and the obviousshortfalls in the ‘The National ChildcareStrategy in Wales’ document presented inJune 1998, makes me think that we willsucceed in developing a strategy and actionplan that will be far more relevant andbeneficial to our families in Wales.

Yr wyf yn siwr y byddem yn cytuno maidogfen siomedig iawn yw hon; dogfen sy’nmethu â gwneud cyfiawnder ag ymrwymiadcanmoladwy Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedigi helpu teuluoedd a phlant. Rhaid cydnabodbod gan y Llywodraeth y weledigaeth a’rawydd i helpu teuluoedd, ond nid yw’rddogfen hon, o ran strategaeth genedlaethol iGymru, yn adeiladu ar y sylfaen y cyfeirir atoyn y cyflwyniad gan yr YsgrifennyddGwladol ar y pryd, Ron Davies:

I am certain that we would all agree that thisdocument is very disappointing; it fails to dojustice to the commendable commitment ofthe United Kingdom Government to helpfamilies and children. We must recognisethat the Government has the vision and thedesire to help families, but this document, interms of a national strategy for Wales, doesnot build on the foundation referred to in theintroduction by the Secretary of State at thetime, Ron Davies:

‘Bydd angen iddi gynnwys darpariaeth mewnardaloedd gwledig a threfol, a darpariaeth argyfer y Gymraeg, anghenion lleiafrifoeddethnig a’r rhai sydd ag anghenion arbennig.’

‘It will need to include provision in rural andurban areas, provision for the Welshlanguage, the needs of ethnic minorities andthose with special needs.’

2:56 p.m..

Gareth Jones: Mae Plaid Cymru yncymeradwyo’r weledigaeth honno ond ynanghytuno’n llwyr â’r strategaethgyfeiliornus yn y ddogfen, sydd eisoes yncreu yn hytrach na datrys trafferthion aphroblemau, yn bennaf am mai dogfen sydda’i chynnwys yn berthnasol i Loegr drefol ywhon ac nid i Gymru wledig a threfol fel ydywedodd Ron Davies.

Gareth Jones: Plaid Cymru commends thisvision but totally disagrees with theerroneous strategy in the document, which isalready creating difficulties and problemsrather than solving them, mainly because itscontents are relevant to urban England andnot to rural and urban Wales, as Ron Daviessaid.

Mae adroddiad y Pwyllgor MaterionCymreig hefyd yn hallt ei feirniadaeth o’rstrategaeth ac mae’r dyfyniad canlynol yncrynhoi’r feirniadaeth a’r rhwystredigaeth.Gan fod yr adroddiad yn y Saesneg, feddyfynnaf yn yr iaith honno:

The report of the Welsh Affairs Committeestrongly criticises the strategy and thefollowing quotation crystallises the criticismand frustration. I will quote in Englishbecause that is the language of the document:

‘We agree with the Government that there isa need for a strategy to tackle theseproblems. By a strategy we mean not a glossydocument full of fine words and goodintentions, but a coherent plan of action.’

‘We agree with the Government that there isa need for strategy to tackle these problems.By a strategy we mean not a glossy documentfull of fine words and good intentions, but acoherent plan of action.’

Braidd yn hallt efallai o ystyried yweledigaeth, ond mae beirniadaethau’r

Slightly harsh perhaps, considering thevision, but the Welsh Affairs Committee’s

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Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig o’r strategaetharfaethedig yn ein gorfodi i ganolbwyntio ary diffygion hynny y bydd yn rhaid i BwyllgorBusnes a Phwyllgorau priodol y Cynulliad euhystyried a’u datrys wrth lunio strategaethgenedlaethol ar gyfer addysg-ofalgynhwysfawr.

criticism of the proposed strategy forces us tofocus on the deficiencies that the BusinessCommittee and appropriate AssemblyCommittees will have to consider and resolvewhen devising a national strategy forcomprehensive edu-care.

Wedi dweud hynny, yr ydym yn fodlonderbyn a chefnogi’r cynnig ond yr wyf amgyfeirio at rai materion allweddol y maeangen eu gwyntyllu a’u datrys neu ddod ibenderfyniad yn eu cylch. Yr ydym am eigwneud yn hollol glir y bydd Plaid Cymru,wedi hynny, am iddynt gael eu hymgorfforimewn unrhyw strategaeth a lunnir gan yCynulliad. Cydnabuwyd y rhan fwyafohonynt eisoes fel pwyntiau allweddol ihyrwyddo strategaeth a fyddai’n sicrhauargaeledd gofal plant o ansawdd da yngNghymru.

Having said that, we are prepared to acceptand support this motion but I wish to refer tosome key matters which need to be aired andwhich should be resolved or decided upon.We want to make it clear that, having donethat, Plaid Cymru will want them to beincorporated in any strategy formed by theAssembly. The majority have already beenrecognised as key factors in promoting thestrategy of ensuring the availability of highquality childcare in Wales.

Heblaw am broblemau cyllidol ymarferol,dywed tystiolaeth gref wrthym y dylemymbwyllo cyn rhuthro i ostwng oedrancychwyn addysg orfodol i dair oed, fel syddyn digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Mae lle i ystyriedyr arfer da mewn gwledydd eraill, ac ibryderu ein bod wedi mynd yn ôl i sefyllfa oddiffyg darpariaeth benodol ar gyfer y plantieuengaf ers cyflwyno’r cynlluniaublynyddoedd cynnar—bod plant mor ifanc âphrin bedair oed yn eistedd wrth ddesgiaumewn dosbarth o blant rhwng tair a saithoed. Cred Plaid Cymru y dylid sicrhauarwahanrwydd addysgol yr oed meithrin gangydnabod a pharchu’r gwahaniaeth sylfaenolsydd yn anghenion dysgu plant rhwng tair aphump oed.

Apart from practical financial problems,strong evidence shows that we should reflectbefore rushing to lower the age of startingcompulsory education to three, as ishappening at present. There is room toconsider good practice in other countries andfor concern that we have returned to asituation of lack of specific provision for theyoungest children since the introduction ofthe early years schemes—that children asyoung as three are sitting at desks in aclassroom of children ranging in age fromthree to seven. Plaid Cymru believes that weshould ensure that nursery age children areeducated separately and acknowledge andrespect the fundamental differences in thelearning needs of children between three andfive years of age.

Dylid sicrhau’r amodau gorau ar gyferhyrwyddo’r dysgu hwnnw ac ystyried plantdan dair oed sydd heb gael sylw yn nhermaugofal o ansawdd. Mae anghenion y plentynmeithrin yn golygu bod angen awyrgylch acamgylchiadau dysgu sy’n wahanol i’r rhaisy’n addas ar gyfer plant hŷn. Gallwnymhelaethu ond fe ddyfynnaf o’r adroddiadyn y Saesneg:

We should ensure the best conditionspossible to promote that teaching andconsider children under three years of agewho have not been given any attention interms of quality care. The needs of thenursery child require a different learningethos and different circumstances from thoseappropriate for older children. I couldelaborate on that point but I will quote fromthe report in English:

‘The form of early years education is an area ‘The form of early years education is an area

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for urgent debate. In our view, learningthrough play is the right approach for veryyoung children.’

for urgent debate. In our view, learningthrough play is the right approach for veryyoung children.’

O ystyried hynny, mae tystiolaeth yradroddiad am gylchoedd chwarae a meithrinyn cau, a phlant bach yn cael eu lleoli mewnunedau neu ddosbarthiadau meithrin mewnysgolion, yn aml er lles cyllid yr ysgol ynhytrach na lles y plentyn, yn fater o bryderdwfn. Dyna yw gwendid cynhenid ystrategaeth—nid ydyw’n canolbwyntio digonar anghenion y plentyn a darparu gofal oansawdd ond yn hytrach yn edrych fwy ar suti gael y rhiant yn ôl i’r gwaith. Strategaethgofal ydyw yn hytrach na strategaeth i blant,neu agenda ‘welfare to work’. Dylid cywirohyn drwy gydnabod pwysigrwydd y grwpiaua’r cylchoedd meithrin a fyddai’n rhoipwyslais ar y plentyn, a chefnogir hyn yngadarn gan yr adroddiad:

In view of this, the report’s evidence of theclosure of playgroups and nursery groups andchildren being placed in units or nurseryclasses in schools, very often for the benefitof the school’s budget rather than that of thechild, is of deep concern. That is the basicweakness of the strategy—it does notconcentrate sufficiently on the needs of thechild and quality childcare, but instead lookscloser at how to get the parent back to work.It is a care strategy rather than a strategy forchildren, or the ‘welfare to work’ agenda.We need to rectify this by recognising theimportance of nursery groups that would putthe emphasis on the child. This is firmlysupported by the report:

‘Local education authorities must bepersuaded to build on existing playgroupprovision, not undermine it. Playgroups areclearly part of the solution to developingaffordable childcare.’

‘Local education authorities must bepersuaded to build on existing playgroupprovision, not undermine it. Playgroups areclearly part of the solution to developingaffordable childcare.’

Mae’n ynfydrwydd inni ganiatáu i’rstrategaeth bresennol orfodi grwpiau achylchoedd meithrin i gau pan nad ydymmewn sefyllfa i ddiwallu anghenion plantmeithrin yn ein hysgolion. Byddai’n weithredanghyfrifol o gofio’r diffygion. Yn ôl ydystiolaeth, bydd rhaid, yn y dyfodol agos,ailsefydlu grwpiau gwirfoddol sy’n cael eudifa’n systematig ar hyn o bryd, os ydym oddifrif ynglŷn â sefydlu strategaeth oansawdd da, gan mai’r grwpiau hyn sydd yngallu cynnig y dewis angenrhediol ideuluoedd Cymreig:

It is foolish to allow the present strategy toforce playgroups and nursery groups to closewhen we are not in a position to provide fornursery children in our school. That wouldbe irresponsible, given the deficiencies.According to the evidence, we will, in thenear future, have to re-establish voluntarygroups which are being systematicallydecimated if we seriously want to establish ahigh quality strategy, as these groups canoffer the necessary choice for Welshfamilies:

‘It is a matter of great concern to us that thefuture of playgroups in Wales is under threatas an unintended consequence of the UKGovernment’s policy of lowering the age ofschool entry.’

‘It is matter of great concern to us that thefuture playgroups in Wales is under threat asan unintended consequence of the UKGovernment’s policy of lowering the age ofschool entry.’

Dylid atal y ffolineb hwnnw yn ddiymdroi.Nid yw’r Partneriaethau BlynyddoeddCynnar yn gweithio gan eu bod yn tueddu ifod yn bartneriaethau un cyfeiriad. Maeangen gosod canllawiau eglur ar eu cyfer fel

This foolishness should be stoppedimmediately. The Early Years Partnershipsdo not work because they tend to be one-directional partnerships. We need to establishclear guidelines for them so that everyone

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bod pawb yn deall y sefyllfa. understands the situation.

Ar ben hynny, mae colli cylchoedd cyfrwngCymraeg nid yn unig yn drist, ond ynanfaddeuol, ac yn ôl yr adroddiad:

On top of this, the loss of Welsh-mediumgroups is not only sad, but unforgivable, andaccording to the report:

‘The loss of Welsh medium playgroups,particularly in areas where the local schooloperates in English, has very seriousimplications for the future of the Welshlanguage.’

‘The loss of Welsh medium playgroupsparticularly in areas where the local schooloperates in English, has very seriousimplications for the future of the Welshlanguage.’

Anogir pob partneriaeth gofal plant gan yradroddiad i atal y bygythiad hwn i gylchoedda grwpiau meithrin gan fod adfer y sefyllfahon yn angenrheidiol. Mae’r Gymraeg ynperthyn i holl blant Cymru. Fel rhan o raglenddatblygol addysg feithrin dylid cynnwysrhaglen o godi ymwybyddiaeth gyhoeddus obwysigrywdd creiddiol y Gymraeg ihunaniaeth pobl Cymru ynghyd âphwysleisio gwerth dwyieithrwydd a’rmanteision o gychwyn plant ifainc ar ybroses o gaffael y Gymraeg.

The report encourages each childcarepartnership to stop this threat to nurserygroups and playgroups because rectifyingthis situation is essential. The Welshlanguage belongs to all the children ofWales. A development programme fornursery education should include aprogramme to raise public awareness of theintrinsic importance of the Welsh language tothe identity of the people of Wales togetherwith stressing the value of bilingualism andthe advantages of starting to learn Welsh atan early age.

Mae’n amlwg fod diffyg cyllid hefyd ynamharu ar y ddarpariaeth ar gyfer plant aganghenion arbennig a rhoddir sylw i hyn ynyr adroddiad. Fe ddyfynnaf o’r adroddiad i’nhatgoffa mor anobeithiol yw’r sefyllfa:

The report also pays attention to the obviouseffect that lack of funds has had on theprovision for children with special needs. Iwill quote from the report to remind us of thehopelessness of the situation:

‘There needs to be a clear nationalcommitment to provide integrated childcarefor disabled children with special needs. TheGovernment must demonstrate that itscommitment to social inclusion extends tothe young and disabled.’

‘There needs to be a clear nationalcommitment to provide integrated childcarefor disabled children with special needs. TheGovernment must demonstrate that itscommitment to social inclusion extends tothe young and disabled.’

Tynnir sylw gan yr adroddiad at nifer owendidau yn y gyfundrefn sy’n bodoli drwyGymru. Hoffwn eich hatgoffa ohonynt. Maediffyg cyd-ddealltwriaeth a’r cydweithio addylai fod rhwng adrannau addysg a’rgwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Mae diffygperthynas integredig â’r agenda datblygiadeconomaidd, ac yr wyf yn cydnabod yr hyn addywedodd Jane yn gynharach. Dylaiaddysg-ofal fod yn rhan greiddiol o bolisieconomaidd eang yn hytrach na rhywbethymylol neu i ferched yn unig. Mae’radroddiad am i’r Cynulliad amlygu’n glir y

This report draws attention to manyweaknesses existing in the system in Wales. Iwill remind you of them. There is a lack ofunderstanding and collaboration betweeneducation departments and the social servicesand no integrated relationship with theeconomic development agenda, and Iacknowledge what Jane said earlier. Edu-careshould be an intrinsic component of a wideeconomic policy, not something on theperiphery or solely for women. The reportwants the Assembly to clearly show ChwaraeTeg,, the WDA and other economic agencies

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dylai Chwarae Teg, y WDA ac asiantaethaueconomaidd eraill yng Nghymrugydweithio’n nes. Dywed yr adroddiad:

that they should be working more closelywith each other. The report states:

‘Childcare must be regarded as a central partof economic development.’

‘Childcare must be regarded as a central partof economic development.’

Gellid ateb y galw am gyllid cynhaliol athymor hir o bosibl o gronfeydd strwythurolEwropeaidd, neu, fel y dywedodd Jane yngynharach, o’r Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd.Mae angen manteisio ar y rhain o ddifrif—y‘New Opportunities Fund’.

The need for long-term, sustainable fundingcould possibly be answered by the Europeanstructural funds, or as Jane said earlier, bythe New Opportunities Fund, of which weneed to take advantage.

Gwendid arall y dylid ei ystyried o ddifrifyw’r angen i hyrwyddo statws broffesiynol ygweithwyr gofal plant. Nid ydym yncydnabod arbenigedd na chyfrifoldebau’rswydd hon nac ychwaith y galwadau a’rpwysau sydd ar y gweithwyr hyn. Wedi’rcyfan, mae’r rhai sydd yn gofalu am ein planthefyd yn gofalu am ein dyfodol. Dylai eugwaith a’r math o gyfrifoldebau syddganddynt gael eu cydnabod drwy wellhyfforddiant, gwell amodau gwaith, gwellcefnogaeth a gwell statws cyflogaeth.

Another weakness to be seriously consideredis the need to promote the professional statusof childcare workers. We do not recognisethe expertise or the responsibilities of thiswork or the pressure on these workers. Thosewho care for our children also care for ourfuture. Their work and the responsibilitiesthat they have should be acknowledged withbetter training, working conditions, supportand employment status.

3:06 p.m.

Er bod croeso i’r strategaeth fel datganiad ofwriad a chennad, mae cryn bryder yn eichylch am nifer o resymau. Mae ynddi dueddat agenda ‘welfare to work’; prin yw’rcyfeiriad ynddi at yr hyn sy’n llesol i blant acnid yw’n ystyried anghenion nifer fawr odeuluoedd difreintiedig. Drwy ganolbwyntioar y partneriaethau blynyddoedd cynnar,mae’r ffocws ar ddatblygu gwasanaethblynyddoedd cynnar wedi ei danseilio, ac fegollwyd y cyfle i integreiddio’r strategaethgyda rhai eraill megis Cychwyn Cadarn. Prinyw’r sôn am anghenion plant ifanc o dan dairoed, nac am deuluoedd sydd â phlant aganableddau.

Though we welcome this strategy as amission statement, there is substantialconcern about it for a number of reasons.There is a tendency towards the ‘welfare towork’ agenda, hardly any mention of what isbeneficial to children and it does notconsider the needs of many deprivedfamilies. By focusing on the early yearspartnerships, the focus on developing earlyyears education has been undermined and theopportunity of integrating the strategy withthose such as Sure Start has been lost. Thereis hardly any mention of the needs ofchildren under three, nor of families whohave children with disabilities.

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Mae’n rhaid i’r Cynulliad ymateb yngadarnhaol ac ar fyrder i sefyllfa sydd yngwaethygu yn hytrach nag yn gwella. Bellachmae gennym y gallu, yr ewyllys a’r grym iwneud hynny. Mae lle inni weithio’nadeiladol drwy’r Pwyllgorau. Yr wyf ynderbyn yr hyn sydd wedi’i ddweud ymaynglŷn â’r gwelliant. Mae’r ffactorau hynnybellach wedi’u hymgorffori yn y cynnig. Dao beth yw hynny, oherwydd dyna’r fforddymlaen. Edrychwn ymlaen at weld yPwyllgorau Pwnc yn ystyried y maes hwn oddifrif. Mae’r grym a’r gallu gennym yn sicr.Awn ymlaen yn hyderus a chefnogwn ycynnig.

The Assembly must respond positively andswiftly to a situation that is deterioratingrather than improving. By now, we have theability, the will and the power to do that. Wecan work constructively through theCommittees. I accept what has been said asfar as the amendment is concerned. Thosefactors have now been incorporated in themotion. That is to be commended as it is theway forward. We look forward to the SubjectCommittees giving this field seriousconsideration. We certainly have the powerand the ability. Let us go forward withconfidence and support the motion.

David Melding: I welcome this verystimulating report, which is an importantcontribution to the development of publicpolicy in this area. I recommend that thoseMembers who have not read it in depth giveit careful attention. I agree with GarethJones, so I shall not reiterate hiscomprehensive remarks. However, this reportis critical and its detail pins down theGovernment on a lot of issues. When it goesto the Committees, they will be interested inthe responses of the Welsh Government tothe issues raised. As in many other publicpolicy areas, it is easy to talk big, but todeliver small: it is not an adequate way todeliver public policy.

David Melding: Yr wyf yn croesawu’radroddiad cyffrous hwn, sydd yn gyfraniadpwysig at ddatblygu polisi cyhoeddus yn ymaes hwn. Yr wyf yn argymell y dylai’rAelodau hynny sydd heb ei ddarllen yndrwyadl roi sylw manwl iddo. Cytunaf âGareth Jones, felly nid ailadroddaf eisylwadau cynhwysfawr. Fodd bynnag, mae’radroddiad hwn yn feirniadol ac mae’rmanylion ynddo yn hoelio’r Llywodraeth arlawer o faterion. Pan â i’r Pwyllgorau, byddganddynt ddiddordeb yn atebionLlywodraeth Cymru i’r materion a godwyd.Yn yr un modd ag mewn llawer o feysyddpolisi cyhoeddus eraill, hawdd yw siarad ynfawr ond cyflawni ychydig: nid yw hynny’nfodd digonol o gyflenwi polisi cyhoeddus.

The report notes that childcare in Wales is ofvariable quality and often of high cost, whichputs it beyond the means of many in thecommunity. Childcare is patchy and notequally available to everyone. Ruralcommunities are often particularlydisadvantaged. It is on those criteria that theSubject Committees will have to ensure thatthe emerging strategy is coherent. GarethJones rightly said that the report condemnsthe current strategy as incoherent and for notbeing a real strategy. I suppose that it is apretend or an inadequate strategy, I am notsure what words they would agree on.However, it is pretty damning that it isdismissed as not a real strategy.

Mae’r adroddiad yn nodi bod gofal plant yngNghymru yn amrywiol o ran ei ansawdd a’ifod yn aml yn uchel ei gost, sy’n ei roi y tuhwnt i fodd llawer yn y gymuned. Mae gofalplant yn wasgarog ac nid yw ar gael i bawbi’r un graddau. Bydd cymunedau gwledig odan anfantais arbennig yn aml. Y meiniprawf hynny yw’r rhai y bydd y PwyllgorauPwnc yn eu defnyddio i sicrhau bod ystrategaeth yn datblygu mewn moddcydlynol. Yr oedd Gareth Jones yn iawn wrthddweud bod yr adroddiad â’i lach ar ystrategaeth gyfredol am nad yw’n gydlynolac am nad yw’n strategaeth wirioneddol.Tybiwn ei bod yn ffug strategaeth neu’n unannigonol: nid wyf yn sicr ar ba eiriau ybyddent yn cytuno. Fodd bynnag, eithafdamniol yw ei hwfftio am beidio â bod ynwir strategaeth.

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I want to spend some time on the positiveitems. There is much to be commended in theapproach of the Select Committee on WelshAffairs. Its evidence was extensive and itobviously had an interesting trip to Denmark.Many of the observations are worthy ofrepetition in the Committee, but we must becautious about such policies as allowingyoung children to sleep outdoors intemperatures of up to minus 12 degreesCelsius. That would be overly stimulating forsmall children. That apart, Denmark wasobviously instructive in the way it runs acomprehensive childcare strategy. Parentsneed real choices. It is pointless having aglitzy document if it does not lead to actionand effective response. Childcare has to beaffordable because if we have wonderfulchildcare that is beyond the means of mostpeople, it is an inadequate response for them.Childcare must be of high quality andavailable comprehensively but that is usuallycostly and is a difficult challenge for us. Itmeans looking very carefully at resources.

Yr wyf am dreulio ychydig amser ar yreitemau cadarnhaol. Mae llawer i’w ganmolyn null gweithredu’r Pwyllgor Dethol arFaterion Cymreig. Yr oedd ei dystiolaeth ynhelaeth ac yr oedd yn amlwg iddo gael taithddiddorol i Ddenmarc. Mae llawer o’rsylwadau’n deilwng o’u hailadrodd yn yPwyllgor, ond rhaid inni fod yn ofalusynghylch polisïau fel caniatáu i blant ifancgysgu y tu allan mewn tymereddau hyd atfinws 12 gradd Celsius. Byddai hynny’n rhygynhyrfiol i blant bychain. Ar wahân ihynny, yr oedd yn amlwg bod Denmarc ynaddysgiadol o ran y ffordd y mae’n rhedegstrategaeth gofal plant gynhwysfawr. Maeangen dewisiadau gwirioneddol ar rieni. Nidoes diben cael dogfen sgleiniog os nad yw’narwain at weithredu ac ymateb effeithiol.Rhaid i ofal plant fod yn fforddiadwyoherwydd os bydd gennym ofal plantardderchog nad yw’r rhan fwyaf o bobl yngallu ei fforddio, ni fydd yn ymatebannigonol ar eu cyfer hwy. Rhaid i ofal plantfod o ansawdd uchel a bod ar gael yngyffredinol ond mae hynny fel arfer yngostus ac mae’n sialens anodd i ni. Mae’ngolygu edrych yn ofalus iawn ar adnoddau.

Effective regulation is also vital and there arereal challenges ahead on that. One of thecontradictions in the document is that itcondemns over-regulation but says thatquality has to be maintained and that thefaith of parents and other people must bebacked up so that they are confident aboutusing the facilities available. Regulation is akey issue. We need to emphasise theinformal childcare sector. Over half ofchildcare is provided informally. Those ofyou who have children—I am not in thatcategory—know that, as in my family,relatives, close friends and parents share thechildcare. We must realise that this is animportant sector. Its regulation is verydifficult and if it is over-regulated, or if wetry to impose regulation on it, there could beproblems in its provision. Providing flexiblearrangements that allow informal child carersto train will have to be done with skill.

Mae rheoleiddio effeithiol yn hanfodol hefydac mae sialensau gwirioneddol o’n blaen ynhynny o beth. Un o’r croesddywediadau yn yddogfen yw ei bod yn condemnio gor-reoleiddio ond ei bod yn dweud bod rhaidcynnal ansawdd a bod rhaid cefnogiymddiriedaeth y rhieni a phobl eraill fel eubod yn hyderus ynghylch defnyddio’rcyfleusterau sydd ar gael. Rheoleiddio yw’rmater allweddol. Mae angen innibwysleisio’r sector gofal plant anffurfiol.Darperir dros hanner y gofal plant ynanffurfiol. Bydd y rhai ohonoch sydd âphlant—ac nid wyf yn y categori hwnnw—yn gwybod, fel yn achos fy nheulu i, fodperthnasau, ffrindiau agos a rhieni ynrhannu’r gofal am blant. Rhaid innisylwedoli bod hwn yn sector pwysig. Anoddyw ei reoleiddio ac os caiff ei or-reoleiddio,neu os ceisiwn orfodi rheoleiddio arno, feellid cael problemau wrth ei ddarparu. Byddraid bod yn ddeheuig iawn wrth ddarparutrefniadau hyblyg sy’n gadael i warchodwyrplant anffurfiol ddilyn hyfforddiant.

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The report stresses that regulation is ofteninconsistent. It also says that the presentsystem is unfair and particularlydisadvantages the voluntary sector, whilstchildren in schools suffer from lowerstandards. We must consider that because thevoluntary sector is often at the cutting edgeand has led the way in informal care. Weneed to encourage that. We have heard aboutthe movement to provide childcare throughthe medium of Welsh.

Mae’r adroddiad yn pwysleisio bodrheoleiddio yn anghyson mewn llawer achos.Fe ddywed hefyd fod y system bresennol ynannheg ac yn rhoi’r sector gwirfoddol dananfantais arbennig, tra bydd plant yn yrysgolion yn dioddef safonau is. Bydd raidinni ystyried hynny oherwydd mae’r sectorgwirfoddol yn aml yn torri cwys newydd acwedi arwain y ffordd mewn gofal anffurfiol.Rhaid inni roi anogaeth i hynny. Fe glywsomam y mudiad i ddarparu gofal plant drwygyfrwng y Gymraeg.

I add my support to the remarks that we needto address the care needs of disabled childrenand children with special educational needs. Iam chairman of governors of a school forchildren with special educational needs. Thisarea is often overlooked and parents oftenfeel isolated. From the point of view of socialinclusion, which we have been examining, itis important that these people are adequatelysupported and that such children are giventhe best care available.

Yr wyf yn ategu’r sylwadau bod angen inniymdrin ag anghenion gofal plant anabl aphlant ag anghenion addysgol arbennig. Yrwyf yn gadeirydd ar lywodraethwyr ysgol iblant ag anghenion addysgol arbennig. Mae’rmaes hwn yn un a gaiff ei anghofio’n aml abydd y rhieni yn teimlo’n aml eu bod wedi euhynysu. O safbwynt cynhwysiantcymdeithasol, y buom yn ei drafod, mae’nbwysig bod y bobl hyn yn derbyn cefnogaethddigonol a bod plant o’r fath yn cael y gofalgorau sydd ar gael.

There have been many remarks aboutencouraging employers to be family friendly.This must be comprehensive: it is not onlychildcare but goes across the social carespectrum. There is great merit in encouraginglarge companies, and, hopefully, the wholeemployment sector, to have policies thatsupport their workforce and encourage thedevelopment and retention of skills. Part ofthat can be achieved by providing goodquality childcare and access to it. TheAssembly could set an example and take alead. It is good for the economy, thedevelopment of which has been staggeringover the last 20 years. Over the next 20 or 30years, the number of people in employmentwho will want to develop their skills orreturn to employment will increase; it alreadyhas. We have been liberated from the oldview that the man is the breadwinner. It isnow most people’s aspiration to enjoy a longworking life. I do not think that will change.It is important that we remember that. Thisarea will be central to future public policy.

Cafwyd llawer o sylwadau am annogcyflogwyr i fod yn gefnogol i deuluoedd.Rhaid i hyn fod yn rhywbeth cyffredinol: nidgofal plant yn unig ydyw ond yr holl ystod oofal cymdeithasol. Mae rhinweddau mawrmewn annog cwmnïau mawr, a, gobeithio, yrholl sector cyflogaeth, i feddu ar bolisïausy’n cefnogi eu gweithlu ac yn eu hannog iddatblygu a chadw medrau. Gellir cyflawnirhan o hynny drwy ddarparu gofal plant oansawdd da a mynediad ato. Gallai’rCynulliad roi esiampl ac arweiniad. Mae erlles yr economi, y gwelwyd datblygusyfrdanol ynddo dros yr 20 mlynedddiwethaf. Dros yr 20 neu 30 mlynedd nesaf,bydd cynnydd yn nifer o bobl mewncyflogaeth sydd am ddatblygu eu medrau acyn nifer y rhai sydd am ddychwelyd iweithio; gwelwyd hynny eisoes. Yr ydymwedi’n rhyddhau o’r hen syniad mai’r dynyw’r enillydd cyflog. Dyhead y rhan fwyaf obobl bellach yw mwynhau oes hir mewngwaith. Ni chredaf y bydd hynny’n newid.Mae’n bwysig inni gofio hynny. Bydd ymaes hwn yn ganolog i bolisi cyhoeddus yn ydyfodol.

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3:16 p.m.

I conclude with a few critical remarksbecause sometimes we lose bite in thisChamber. I am not being completelydismissive of the Government; it is only nowdeveloping this strategy and may want torespond to my concerns, take them toCommittee and address them properly.However, some of the report’s conclusionsare remarkable. The report says:

Terfynaf drwy roi ychydig o sylwadaubeirniadol oherwydd weithiau bydd diffygawch yn y Siambr hon. Nid wyf yn wfftio’nllwyr at y Llywodraeth; newydd ddechraudatblygu’r strategaeth hon y mae ac efallai ybydd am ymateb i’m pryderon, a mynd â hwyi Bwyllgor a’u trafod yn iawn. Fodd bynnag,mae rhai o gasgliadau’r adroddiad yn hynod.Fe ddywed yr adroddiad:

‘Little can be achieved without a substantialinjection of new money.’

‘Little can be achieved without a substantialinjection of new money.’

One criticism of this Government is therepackaging and talking up that it does. Thatraises expectations and is not the best way toachieve public objectives unless you mean itand are going to follow up with the resourcesrequired. Jane referred to the NewOpportunities Fund; the report is very criticalin this case. It says that unrealistic targets forprovision of childcare places have been setand states:

Un feirniadaeth ar y Llywodraeth hon yw’railbecynnu a’r ormodiaith a geir ganddi. Maehynny’n codi disgwyliadau ac nid honnoyw’r ffordd orau i gyflawni amcanioncyhoeddus onid ydych o ddifrif ac am roi’radnoddau angenrheidiol wedyn. CyfeirioddJane at y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd; mae’radroddiad yn feirniadol iawn yn yr achoshwn. Dywed fod targedau anymarferol wedieu gosod ar gyfer darparu lleoedd mewngofal plant ac mae’n datgan:

‘The target of childcare places which theNOF has been set for Wales is unrealisticallyhigh.’

‘The target of childcare places which theNOF has been set for Wales is unrealisticallyhigh.’

This Government can be criticised for settingtargets that other people are supposed toachieve and not providing those people withthe resources to achieve them. We welcomethe development of childcare and theprovision of a broad range of options. Parentswant that. We welcome the support of thosewho are giving childcare informally but wewant it to be safe and effective and to ensurethat children are always protected to themaximum. However, we recognise that thisarea of public policy needs attention. It isgood for the individuals, the children and oureconomic prospects. We support the motion,as amended.

Gellir beirniadu’r Llywodraeth hon am osodtargedau sydd i’w cyflawni gan bobl eraill apheidio â rhoi’r adnoddau y mae ar y boblhynny eu hangen er mwyn eu cyflawni. Yrydym yn croesawu datblygu gofal plant adarparu amrediad eang o ddewisiadau. Maerhieni am gael hynny. Yr ydym yn croesawucefnogaeth y rhai sy’n darparu gofal plant ynanffurfiol ond yr ydym am i hynny fod ynddiogel ac yn effeithiol a sicrhau bod plantwedi eu diogelu i’r graddau mwyaf posibl.Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn cydnabod bodangen rhoi sylw i’r maes hwn o bolisicyhoeddus. Mae er budd unigolion, plant a’nrhagolygon economaidd. Cefnogwn y cynnig,gyda’r gwelliant.

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Val Feld: I wrote notes for this debate. Iplanned to say that this was a majorbreakthrough and a leap forward for womenwho have campaigned for better childcare foryears. I planned to welcome the fact that thishas been taken as a serious issue and that foronce it was not just us women speaking inthis debate. Having heard the last twospeakers, I am reserving judgment. The UKGovernment is being attacked for allowingone of its first key strategies, which has notyet been implemented in Wales, to be open topublic scrutiny in order to make it better andmore efficient and effective. If we are toprogress in the Assembly with a spirit ofopenness and genuine debate, we have to beable to do that without looking to scorepolitical points where there is progress to bemade. Gareth talked about how critical thereport is. The purpose of the House ofCommons Welsh Affairs Committeeinvestigation was to try to tease out how tomake a strategy effective for Wales. Thatmeans looking at what they think will workby talking to a range of organisations andreaching a judgment on how to make thatstrategy more effective.

Val Feld: Ysgrifennais nodiadau ar gyfer yddadl hon. Yr oeddwn wedi bwriadu dweudbod hyn yn drobwynt mawr ac yn gamymlaen i fenywod sydd wedi ymgyrchu ersblynyddoedd am well gofal plant. Yr oedd ynfwriad gennyf groesawu’r ffaith ei fod wediei dderbyn yn fater difrifol ac am unwaith ybyddai rhai heblaw ni’r benywod yn siaradyn y drafodaeth hon. Ar ôl gwrando ar y ddausiaradwr diwethaf, yr wyf yn ymatal rhagdatgan fy marn. Ymosodir ar Lywodraeth yDU am ganiatáu i un o’i strategaethauallweddol cyntaf, nas gweithredwyd yngNghymru eto, fod yn agored i’w harchwiliogan y cyhoedd er mwyn ei gwneud yn well acyn fwy effeithiol ac effeithlon. Os ydym isymud ymlaen yn y Cynulliad mewn ysbrydsy’n golygu bod yn agored a chael trafodaethddilys, bydd raid inni allu gwneud hynny hebgeisio sgorio pwyntiau gwleidyddol lle y maeangen sicrhau cynnydd. Dywedodd Garethfod yr adroddiad yn feirniadol. Pwrpasymchwiliad Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig Tŷ’rCyffredin oedd ceisio canfod sut i wneudstrategaeth effeithiol i Gymru. Mae hynny’ngolygu edrych ar yr hyn a allai weithio, yn eubarn hwy, drwy siarad ag amrediad o gyrff adyfarnu ynghylch sut i wneud y strategaethhonno’n fwy effeithiol.

I heard David damn with faint praise. Peoplelike David in the Conservative Party seem tohave collective amnesia about the fact thatfor 18 years your party did nothing aboutchildcare. I was one of the people whoargued and put forward proposals on howchildcare strategies could be driven forward.At the Equal Opportunities Committee wewent to great lengths to prepare detailedproposals, which were thrown out by yourparty. For you to come tearing in with allthese criticisms after the Labour Party hasonly been in power for two years is a bit rich.David is generally one of the ones on ourside but we have to have a historicperspective on this.

Clywais David yn glasganmol. Mae’nymddangos bod pobl fel David yn y BlaidGeidwadol wedi cydanghofio am y ffaith nawnaeth eich plaid ddim am 18 mlyneddynghylch gofal plant. Yr oeddwn yn un o’rrhai a gyflwynodd ddadleuon a chynigionynghylch sut y gellid hyrwyddo strategaethaugofal plant. Yn y Pwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartalgwnaethom waith mawr i baratoi cynigionmanwl, a daflwyd allan gan eich plaid chi.Braidd yn ormod yw ichi frysio i mewn â’rsylwadau beirniadol hyn a’r Blaid Lafur hebfod mewn grym ond am ddwy flynedd. Felarfer bydd David yn un o’r rhai sydd ar eichhochr ni ond rhaid inni ystyried hyn osafbwynt hanesyddol.

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However, it is an important debate and a stepforward. We should see it in those terms. Thepolitical views of many women were formedin campaigning for better childcare so thatwe could participate in the communities,develop our potential and so that otherwomen in low-paid jobs could have thechance to play a role and enter education andtraining. I am one of four Labour AssemblyMembers who was a member of the WelshOffice childcare working party that oversawthe development of that strategy. Weencouraged the Welsh Affairs Committee toseek views about how to improve it. It isincumbent on us to pick up those commentsand start looking through our new structuresand powers in the Assembly.

Fodd bynnag, mae’n ddadl bwysig ac yn gamymlaen. Dylem ei weld felly. Ffurfiwydsafbwyntiau gwleidyddol llawer o fenywodwrth ymgyrchu am well gofal plant fel ygallem gymryd rhan yn y cymunedau,datblygu ein potensial ac fel y gallaibenywod eraill mewn swyddi â chyflog iselgael cyfle i chwarae rôl a derbyn addysg ahyfforddiant. Yr wyf yn un o bedwar AelodLlafur yn y Cynulliad oedd yn aelod oweithgor gofal plant y Swyddfa Gymreig aoruchwyliodd ddatblygiad y strategaethhonno. Rhoesom anogaeth i’r PwyllgorMaterion Cymreig geisio barn am y moddi’w gwella. Mae’n ddyletswydd arnom iystyried y sylwadau hynny a dechrau edrychdrwy ein strwythurau a’n pwerau newydd yny Cynulliad.

How can we make the Assembly work? If wedo not invest in our children, we do notinvest in our future or build the kind ofWales that we often talk about. Maybe we donot talk about Wales with the kind of passionThe Mirror would like us to have but this is acomplex business. It involves a range ofdifferent issues, players and considerations.It is a big programme for us to develop. Myview, and the view of the EOC, is that weshould look for a 10-year programme to takeforward a plan for childcare in Wales.

Sut y gallwn wneud i’r Cynulliad weithio?Os na fuddsoddwn yn ein plant, ni fyddwn ynbuddsoddi yn ein dyfodol nac yn adeiladu’rmath o Gymru yr ydym wedi sôn amdani’naml. Efallai nad ydym yn sôn am Gymru â’rmath o angerdd y mae The Mirror am ei weldond mae hyn yn fusnes cymhleth. Mae’ncynnwys amrediad o faterion, cyfranwyr acystyriaethau gwahanol. Mae’n rhaglen fawri’w datblygu gennym. Fy marn i, a barn yPwyllgor Cyfle Cyfartal, yw y dylem ystyriedrhaglen 10-mlynedd i ddatblygu cynllungofal plant i Gymru.

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There are many aspects to this. I want toconcentrate on the way in which we drivethis forward, monitor and evaluate it andensure that it delivers real change on theground. That is particularly important. TheSubject Committees and other organisationsmust work on the detail of this programmefor the Assembly to ensure that we take thatforward. In doing that, we must recognise thestrong tradition we have in Wales of nurseryeducation. We fought hard to hang on to thatat times when the Conservatives ingovernment wanted to take it away. It nowprovides an important basis on which tobuild the development of a broader range ofchildcare that meets the needs of workingparents. It will meet the social needs ofchildren in poor families who do not have theopportunity to communicate and socialise. Itwill also meet the educational needs.Swansea is one of the areas where we foughthard to hold on to our nursery education.

Mae llawer agwedd i hynny. Yr wyf amganolbwyntio ar y modd y byddwn yn gyrruhyn ymlaen, yn ei monitro a’i werthuso asicrhau ei fod yn dod â newid gwirioneddolar lawr gwlad. Mae hynny’n arbennig obwysig. Rhaid i’r Pwyllgorau Pwnc a chyrfferaill weithio ar fanylion y rhaglen hon drosy Cynulliad i sicrhau y byddwn yn datblyguhynny. Wrth wneud hyn, rhaid inni gydnabodo traddodiad cryf o addysg feithrin syddgennym yng Nghymru. Bu inni ymladd yngaled i ddal gafael ar hynny pan oedd yCeidwadwyr pan oeddent mewn Llywodraetham fynd â hynny oddi arnom. Mae bellach ynrhoi sylfaen i ddatblygu amrediad eang o ofalplant sy’n ateb anghenion rhieni sy’ngweithio. Bydd yn cyflenwi anghenioncymdeithasol plant mewn teuluoedd tlawdsydd heb gyfle i gyfathrebu a chymdeithasu.Bydd hefyd yn cyflenwi’r anghenionaddysgol. Abertawe yw un o’r ardaloeddhynny lle’r oeddem wedi ymladd yn galed iddal gafael ar ein haddysg feithrin.

We have a fine record. I have visited anumber of those fabulous schools. The focusof our local authorities was more oneducation and not on broader childcare. As aresult, in Swansea we only have 178childcare places for every 1,000 children. Wehave a great deal of work to do to integrateexisting programmes, build on ourexperience to bring more childcare workersand ensure that they have good pay andconditions. It is women’s work and is poorlypaid. We have to make real progress on thatand ensure that we provide affordable,accessible and sustainable childcare so thatworking parents will put their children intothe establishment. It must be of good qualityso parents know that when their children arein the centres, they will be safe and wellcared for.

Mae gennym record ardderchog. Ymwelais ânifer o’r ysgolion gwych yma. Yr oedd yrawdurdodau lleol wedi canolbwyntio’n fwyar addysg ac nid yn ehangach ar ofal plant. Oganlyniad, yn Abertawe nid oes gennym ond178 o leoedd mewn gofal plant i bob 1,000 oblant. Mae gennym lawer iawn o waith i’wwneud i integreiddio’r rhaglenni presennol,adeiladu ar ein profiad i sicrhau mwy oweithwyr gofal plant a sicrhau bod eu cyfloga’u hamodau’n dda. Gwaith benywod ydywac mae’r cyflog yn wael. Rhaid inni wneudcynnydd gwirioneddol ar hynny a sicrhau einbod yn darparu gofal plant fforddiadwy,hygyrch a chynaliadwy fel y bydd rhieni sy’ngweithio yn rhoi eu plant yn y sefydliad.Rhaid iddo fod o ansawdd da fel y byddrhieni’n gwybod y bydd eu plant yn ddiogelac yn derbyn gofal da pan fyddant yn ycanolfannau.

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To do that, we have to bring together thelocal authorities and the voluntary andprivate sectors. I particularly want to askJane, and Rosemary, who has a sharedresponsibility for this, to look urgently at theestablishment of the Wales advisory body.That would allow us to take an overview, todevelop a plan and set targets, to monitor andensure that the voluntary sector has theresources it needs to deliver the quality ofservice that we need. It would build a linkbetween the different agencies.

I wneud hynny, rhaid inni ddod â’rawdurdodau lleol a’r sectorau gwirfoddol aphreifat at ei gilydd. Yn benodol, yr wyf amofyn i Jane, a Rosemary, a rannodd ycyfrifoldeb am hyn, i roi ystyriaeth frys isefydlu corff ymgynghorol i Gymru. Byddaihynny’n caniatáu inni gael uwcholwg,datblygu cynllun a gosod targedau, monitro asicrhau bod gan y sector gwirfoddol yradnoddau y mae arno eu hangen i gyflenwi’ransawdd yr ydym am ei weld yn ygwasanaeth. Byddai’n creu cysylltiad rhwngy gwahanol asiantaethau.

3:26 p.m.

As these proposals and the Welsh AffairsSelect Committee report go into committee, Ialso want to see considered the proposal thatthere should be an Assembly task and finishgroup. That would set this programme off onthe right footing and determine where in theCommittees the responsibility lies. It wouldestablish the Wales Advisory Committee sothat we have a solid foundation. We are on anew path; we are just beginning to work outhow to do this. It is important that we makeprogress, learn from the evidence given to usand start to roll out a programme that canreach across Wales.

Gan y bydd y cynigion hyn ac adroddiad yPwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig ynmynd i’r Pwyllgorau, yr wyf hefyd am weldystyriaeth i’r cynnig y dylid cael grŵpgorchwyl a gorffen yn y Cynulliad. Byddaihynny’n cychwyn y rhaglen hon ar y droediawn ac yn penderfynu ym mhle yn ypwyllgorau y mae’r cyfrifoldeb. Byddai’nsefydlu Pwyllgor Ymgynghorol Cymru fel ybydd gennym sylfaen gadarn. Yr ydym yndilyn llwybr newydd; yr ydym newyddddechrau darganfod sut i wneud hynny.Mae’n bwysig inni wneud cynnydd, dysguo’r dystiolaeth a roddwyd i ni a dechraudatblygu rhaglen sy’n gallu cyrraedd pobrhan o Gymru.

Helen Mary Jones: I am sorry to disappointVal but my point is critical of theGovernment of Wales, of the BritishGovernment previously responsible for thesematters and of the Welsh Office. I do so inthe spirit to which Alun Michael hasfrequently referred. A spirit of partnershipand co-working is not necessarily cosy anddoes not always mean that we agree with oneanother. I take Val’s point that those of uswho have worked together outside thisChamber and in another place, though not inthat other place, want to continue in thatspirit of co-operation and co-working.

Helen Mary Jones: Mae’n ddrwg gennyfsiomi Val ond mae’r pwynt sydd gennyf ynfeirniadol o Lywodraeth Cymru, oLywodraeth Prydain a fu’n gyfrifol cynt am ymaterion hyn ac o’r Swyddfa Gymreig. Yrwyf yn gwneud hynny yn yr ysbryd ycyfeiriodd Alun Michael ato’n aml. Nid ywysbryd o bartneriaeth a chydweithio oreidrwydd yn un cysurus ac nid yw bobamser yn golygu ein bod yn cytuno â’ngilydd. Yr wyf yn derbyn pwynt Val bod yrhai ohonom a weithiodd gyda’i gilydd y tuallan i’r Siambr hon ac mewn lle arall, ondnid yn y lle arall hwnnw, am barhau â’rysbryd hwnnw o gydweithio achydweithredu.

I refer Jane and the Government to paragraph63 of the Welsh Affairs Committee’s thirdreport:

Yr wyf yn tynnu sylw Jane a’r Llywodraethat baragraff 63 yn nhrydydd adroddiad yPwyllgor Materion Cymreig:

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‘In our view it is important that the NationalAssembly should set a good example as anemployer in respect of childcare.’

‘In our view it is important that the NationalAssembly should set a good example as anemployer in respect of childcare.’

The report also states: Mae’r adroddiad hefyd yn dweud:

‘It is regrettable that a crèche has not beenprovided for the National Assembly atCrickhowell House. The Minister argued—’

‘It is regrettable that a crèche has not beenprovided for the National Assembly atCrickhowell House. The Minister argued—’

that must have been Alun, or possibly not— rhaid mai Alun oedd hwnnw, neu efallaiddim—

‘that it was hard to know what the childcareneeds of the Assembly Members would be inadvance of their election, and that it shouldbe for the Assembly to decide what resourcesto put into childcare. Sadly, childcare is stillregarded, even by the Welsh Office, as anoptional extra.’

‘that it was hard to know what the childcareneeds of the Assembly Members would be inadvance of their election, and that it shouldbe for the Assembly to decide what resourcesto put into childcare. Sadly, childcare is stillregarded, even by the Welsh Office, as anoptional extra.’

In bold type, we have the recommendation: Mewn teip drwm, cawn yr argymhelliadhwn:

‘We hope that the National Assembly willdemonstrate its commitment to childcare bymaking immediate childcare arrangements inCardiff Bay for Members, staff and visitorsto the Assembly, and by integrating achildcare service in the plans for the newAssembly building.’

‘We hope that the National Assembly willdemonstrate its commitment to childcare bymaking immediate childcare arrangements inCardiff Bay for Members, staff and visitorsto the Assembly, and by integrating achildcare service in the plans for the newAssembly building.’

I understand from the answer to anotherMember’s question, that the First Secretaryhas said that one Member expressedchildcare needs in response to aquestionnaire. I have a few comments onthat. I ask Jane to check whether this was theInformation Technology questionnaire thatalso contained questions about childcare. TheIT service told me that prior to the election itreceived just six replies to the questionnaire.Two of the people who were replied werethen not elected. If that is the basis on whichwe say that Assembly Members have nochildcare needs, then it would be interestingto look again at the current situation.

Yr wyf yn deall o ateb i gwestiwn Aelodarall, i’r Prif Ysgrifennydd ddweud mai unAelod oedd wedi datgan anghenion gofalplant mewn ateb i holiadur. Mae gennyfychydig o sylwadau i’w gwneud ar hynny. Yrwyf yn gofyn i Jane wirio ai’r holiadurTechnoleg Gwybodaeth oedd hwn, a oeddhefyd yn cynnwys cwestiynau am ofal plant.Fe ddywedodd y gwasanaeth TG wrthyf nadoedd ond wedi derbyn chwe ateb i’r holiadurcyn yr etholiad. Ni etholwyd dau o’r rhai aatebodd yr holiadur. Os mai honno yw’r saildros ddweud nad oes gan Aelodau’rCynulliad unrhyw anghenion gofal plant,byddai’n ddiddorol ailedrych ar y sefyllfabresennol.

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Childcare is not only an issue for AssemblyMembers but for our staff. I am aware thatmany of the people who work in this buildinghave young families. They are frequentlyasked to work an hour, or half an hour,overtime. That is difficult to do if yourchildcare arrangements are outside of thebuilding. However, if we had childcarearrangements, it might be possible to makespecial provision for that; not that I want tosee our staff, or us, working all hours of theday and night.

Nid yw gofal plant yn fater i Aelodau’rCynulliad yn unig ond i’n staff hefyd. Yr wyfyn ymwybodol bod teuluoedd ifanc ganlawer o’r rhai sy’n gweithio yn yr adeiladhwn. Fe ofynnir yn aml iddynt weithio awr,neu hanner awr, yn ychwanegol. Anodd ywgwneud hynny os yw’ch trefniadau gofalplant y tu allan i’r adeilad. Fodd bynnag, pebai gennym ni drefniadau gofal plant, fe allaifod yn bosibl gwneud darpariaeth arbennig argyfer hynny; nid fy mod am weld ein staff,na ninnau chwaith, yn gweithio bob awr o’rdydd a’r nos.

There is also the issue of visitors. Thismorning I happened to be in the foyer as agroup of families with young children cameto present a petition. I believe they came tospeak to Jane about health care provision.They could not get the pushchair through therevolving door and we had to unlock aspecial door for them. There was nowhere forthe children to play and not even anywherewhere the mothers could change nappies. MyParty does not usually quote the Bible, but Iam concerned that in this debate we aretaking a splinter out of other people’s eyeswhen we still have an enormous beam in ourown. I invite the Government of Wales toaddress this as a matter of urgency.

Dyna fater ymwelwyr hefyd. Fore heddiw yroeddwn yn digwydd bod yn y cyntedd panddaeth grŵp o deuluoedd â phlant ifanc igyflwyno deiseb. Yr wyf yn credu iddyntddod i siarad â Jane ynghylch y ddarpariaetho ofal iechyd. Nid oeddent yn gallu dod â’rgoetsh gadair drwy’r drws troi ac yr oeddrhaid inni ddatgloi drws arbennig iddynt. Nidoedd unlle i’r plant chwarae nac unlle lle ygallai’r mamau newid clytiau hyd yn oed. Nifydd y rhai yn fy Mhlaid i yn dyfynnu o’rBeibl fel arfer, ond yr wyf yn bryderus yn yddadl hon ein bod yn ceisio symudbrycheuyn o lygaid pobl eraill a ninnau âthrawst anferth yn ein llygaid ein hunain.Gwahoddaf Lywodraeth Cymru i ymdrin âhyn fel mater o frys.

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It may be too late to have a childcare facilityin this building due to pressure of space. Itmay also be too late to have a facility forolder children and all the things whichcolleagues who were in the NationalAssembly Advisory Group talked about. Iremind those colleagues and the Governmentthat the commitment to childcare, providingit was not too expensive, was not objected toin any of NAAG’s public consultations. Itreceived very wide support. If it is notpossible for us to make provision in thisbuilding, then we must have space forchildren in our new building. In the shortterm, it cannot be beyond the inventivenessof this Assembly and Government to ensurethat the next time I meet someone who needsto change a nappy in this building, I do nothave to take them to my office to do it.

Hwyrach ei bod yn rhy hwyr i gael cyfleustergofal plant yn yr adeilad hwn oherwydd ycyfyngiadau ar ofod. Efallai hefyd ei bod ynrhy hwyr i gael cyfleuster ar gyfer plant hŷna’r holl bethau yr oedd ein cyd-weithwyr yngNgrŵp Ymgynghorol y CynulliadCenedlaethol wedi eu trafod. Yr wyf ynatgoffa’r cyd-weithwyr hynny a’rLlywodraeth nad oedd gwrthwynebiad i’rymrwymiad at ofal plant, ar yr amod nadoedd yn rhy ddrud, yn yr un oymgynghoriadau cyhoeddus GrŵpYmgynghorol y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol.Rhoddwyd cefnogaeth eang iawn iddo. Osnad oes modd inni wneud darpariaeth yn yradeilad hwn, yna rhaid inni gael lle ar gyferplant yn ein hadeilad newydd. Yn y tymorbyr, ni allai fod y tu hwnt i ddyfeisgarwch yCynulliad a’r Llywodraeth i sicrhau, y tronesaf y byddaf yn cwrdd â rhywun sydd amnewid clwt yn yr adeilad hwn, na fydd raid eihebrwng i’m swyddfa i wneud hynny.

Gwenda Thomas: Diolch Mr Llywydd am ycyfle i gyfrannu i’r ddadl bwysig hon. Mae’nbleser gennyf gefnogi’r cynnig.

Gwenda Thomas: Thank you Mr Llywyddfor the opportunity of contributing to thisimportant motion. I am glad to support themotion.

However, I make the following points. Anychildcare strategy must not expose childrento the risk of abuse. I believe that all formalchildcare provision should be registered.Indeed, this is a statutory obligation at themoment. As an Assembly, we must neverconsider proposals to do away with therequirement to register, even for short-termcare schemes such as holiday play schemes.The previous Government proposed relaxingthe requirement for the registration of short-term schemes but those proposals werequickly shelved in the aftermath of theDunblane tragedy. Those proposals mustnever see the light of day again. Registrationmust remain as a main means of protectingchildren.

Fodd bynnag, yr wyf am wneud y pwyntiaucanlynol. Mae’n hanfodol na fydd unrhywstrategaeth gofal plant yn peri bod plant ynagored i’r risg o gamdriniaeth. Credaf y dylidcofrestru pob darpariaeth gofal plant ffurfiol.Yn wir, mae hyn yn rhwymedigaeth statudolar hyn o bryd. Fel Cynulliad, ni ddylem bythystyried cynigion i gael gwared ar y gofyniadi gofrestru, hyd yn oed yn achos cynlluniaugofal tymor-byr fel cynlluniau chwarae drosy gwyliau. Yr oedd y Llywodraeth flaenorolwedi bwriadu llacio’r gofyniad i gofrestrucynlluniau tymor-byr ond rhoddwyd ycynigion hynny o’r neilltu’n fuan iawn ynsgil trychineb Dunblane. Ni ddylai’r cynigionhynny byth weld golau dydd eto. Rhaid igofrestru aros yn brif ddull i ddiogelu plant

I welcome the recommendation in the WelshAffairs Committee’s report that extension ofeligibility for the childcare tax credit toinformal, but verifiable, childcarearrangements be supported. I believe that thevalue of extended family support must neverbe underestimated. The contribution of

Yr wyf yn cefnogi’r argymhelliad ynadroddiad y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig ydylid cefnogi ymestyn y cymhwyster idderbyn y credyd treth ar gyfer gofal plant idrefniadau gofal plant anffurfiol, ondgwiriadwy. Credaf na ddylid byth danbrisiogwerth cefnogaeth y teulu estynedig. Rhaid

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grandparents—and here I declare aninterest—aunts and uncles and even, in somecases, great grandparents, must beacknowledged and valued. A child will oftenwant to be cared for within a loving familyrelationship and the wishes of the child mustbe of paramount importance. Strong familylink services can often establish quality carewithin families and can result in the buildingof supportive long-term relationships for thechild.

cydnabod a gwerthfawrogi cyfraniad neiniaua theidiau—ac yr wyf yn datgan diddordebyma—a modrabedd ac ewythredd a hyd ynoed, mewn rhai achosion, hen neiniau a hendeidiau. Bydd plentyn yn aml yn dymunoderbyn gofal o fewn perthynas deuluolgariadus a rhaid rhoi’r pwys mwyaf un arddymuniadau’r plentyn. Yn aml byddgwasanaethau cysylltiadau teuluol cryf yngallu sefydlu gofal o ansawdd da o fewnteuluoedd a gall arwain at adeiladucydberthynasau tymor-hir cefnogol i’rplentyn.

I also support the Sure Start initiative. Anychildcare strategy must identify children inneed. Through the Assembly, a long-termresourced discrete focus on services forchildren in need at a national level is needed.That should be linked to local governmentstructures and there must be clearidentification of lead officers, with oversightof provision for children in need. That wouldfacilitate effective partnership working. Notto be able to offer safe and affordablechildcare to the most deprived familieswould result in their children becoming evenmore marginalised.

Yr wyf hefyd yn cefnogi’r cynllun CychwynCadarn. Rhaid i unrhyw strategaeth gofalplant ddynodi plant sydd mewn angen.Drwy’r Cynulliad, mae angen ffocwsneilltuol tymor-hir ag adnoddau arwasanaethau i blant mewn angen ar lefelgenedlaethol. Dylid cysylltu hynny âstrwythurau llywodraeth leol a rhaid dynodi’rswyddogion arweiniol yn eglur, gydagoruchwyliaeth ar y ddarpariaeth i blantmewn angen. Byddai hynny’n hwylusogweithio effeithiol drwy bartneriaeth. Os nachynigir gofal plant diogel a fforddiadwy i’rteuluoedd mwyaf difreintiedig bydd eu plantyn cael eu gwthio fwyfwy i’r ymylon.

In conclusion, I call on this Assembly toshow its commitment to the welfare andwell-being of children by agreeing to debatein detail, and to consider adopting, theprinciples of the United Nations conventionon the rights of the child.

I derfynu, galwaf ar y Cynulliad hwn iddangos ei ymrwymiad at les a ffyniant plantdrwy gytuno i drafod yn fanwl egwyddorioncytundeb y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar hawliau’rplentyn, ac i ystyried eu mabwysiadu.

3:36 p.m.

Nick Bourne: I have a general commentabout the document, which I only receivedthis morning. That is not meant in anypartisan way. We have all had difficultiesreceiving documents and information on theinternet and intranet. This is just the latestexample. I had hoped to read it over theweekend but that was not possible so I havenot been able to study it in detail.

Nick Bourne: Mae gennyf sylw cyffredinolam y ddogfen, nad oeddwn wedi ei derbyntan fore heddiw. Nid wyf yn golygu i hynnyfod yn bleidiol. Yr ydym oll wedi profianawsterau wrth dderbyn dogfennau agwybodaeth ar y rhyngrwyd a’r fewnrwyd.Yr enghraifft ddiweddaraf yw hyn. Yroeddwn wedi gobeithio ei darllen dros ypenwythnos ond ni fu modd gwneud hynnyfelly nid wyf wedi gallu ei hastudio’n fanwl.

If I could say to Val, who is a fellow memberof the Swansea mafia and taffia, that everytime somebody makes a perfectly cogentcomment, you must not suggest that it is a

Hoffwn ddweud wrth Val, sydd yn gyd-aelodo maffia a taffia Abertawe, na ddylechawgrymu, bob tro y bydd rhywun yn gwneudsylw cwbl argyhoeddiadol, fod hynny’n

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dreadful partisan onslaught just because theyare from Plaid Cymru or the Conservatives.The record will show that you made equallypartisan comments and some very validpoints that might otherwise be lost becauseof wild hyperbole in criticising politicalopponents.

ymosodiad pleidiol ofnadwy dim ond am eubod gan Blaid Cymru neu’r Ceidwadwyr.Bydd y cofnod yn dangos eich bod wedigwneud sylwadau sydd yr un mor bleidiol ynogystal â rhai pwyntiau dilys iawn a allaifynd ar goll oherwydd gormodiaith wylltwrth feirniadu gwrthwynebwyr gwleidyddol.

I give the document in general a warmwelcome. Comments have been made that thekey problem is going to be one of resources. Iam concerned about two areas of the reportthat have been touched upon. Disabledchildren and the needs of rural Wales deservehighlighting. I would like to deal with an areathat perhaps has not been focused on, whichis the role of police checks in looking atpotential staff. That is crucial. The reportmakes the valid point that the practice is notconsistent. Very often it is taking too longand there is not a consistent approach. Wehave to look at resourcing. Police numbershave been going down. In Dyfed Powys, theyhave decreased since the General Election.These things do not help and police checksneed to be conducted. The key is theprotection of children. That is of vitalimportance. We need to ensure that resourcesare available.

Yr wyf yn rhoi derbyniad gwresog i’rddogfen hon at ei gilydd. Fe ddywedwydmai’r broblem allweddol fydd adnoddau. Yrwyf yn bryderus ynghylch dau faes yn yradroddiad y cyffyrddwyd â hwy. Dylid tynnusylw at anghenion plant anabl ac angheniony Gymru wledig. Hoffwn ddelio â maes syddefallai heb dderbyn sylw, sef rôl gwiriadau’rheddlu wrth ystyried staff posibl. Mae hyn ynhollbwysig. Mae’r adroddiad yn gwneud ypwynt dilys nad yw’r ymarfer yn gyson.Bydd yn cyrmyd gormod o amser yn amliawn ac nid oes dull gweithredu cyson. Rhaidinni ystyried adnoddau. Bu gostyngiad ynnifer yr heddweision. Yn Nyfed Powys, bugostyngiad ers yr Etholiad Cyffredinol. Nidyw’r pethau hyn o gymorth ac mae angencynnal gwiriadau gan yr heddlu. Yr allweddyw diogelu plant. Mae hynny o bwyshanfodol. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod adnoddauar gael.

I would also like to support the idea of aChildren’s Commissioner in Wales. We asConservatives support the idea very much.David Melding referred to the experiencegleaned from Scandinavia in underlining theimportance of a children’s ombudsman. Wewelcome the report but have somereservations, which are highlighted in thereport. The only way that we can progressand look at the system’s failings is bylistening to people who have examined thesubject in detail. We should make noapologies for highlighting areas that could beimproved upon. Subject to those points andthe fact that I have not had an opportunity tolook at the report in detail, we welcome it.

Hoffwn hefyd gefnogi’r syniad o gaelComisiynydd Plant yng Nghymru. Yr ydymni fel Ceidwadwyr yn cefnogi’r syniad ynfawr iawn. Cyfeiriodd David Melding at yprofiad a gafodd ei gywain yng ngwledyddLlychlyn wrth danlinellu pwysigrwydd caelombwdsman plant. Yr ydym yn croesawu’radroddiad ond mae gennym rai amheuon, ytynnir sylw atynt yn yr adroddiad. Yr unigffordd y gallwn symud ymlaen ac ystyrieddiffygion y system yw drwy wrando ar bobl aastudiodd y pwnc yn fanwl. Ni ddylemymddiheuro am dynnu sylw at feysydd ygellid eu gwella. Yn amodol ar y pwyntiauhynny a’r ffaith na chefais gyfle i edrych aryr adroddiad yn fanwl, yr ydym yn eigroesawu.

Jane Davidson: I speak as the third memberof the gang of four who contributed towardsthe national childcare strategy and also assomebody who gave evidence to thechildcare Select Committee. I am not

Jane Davidson: Yr wyf yn siarad fel ytrydydd aelod o’r gang o bedwar agyfrannodd at y strategaeth gofal plantgenedlaethol a hefyd fel un a roddodddystiolaeth ar ofal plant i’r Pwyllgor Dethol.

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proposing to go over my evidence because ittakes 20 pages of the report. I would like tofocus on an issue that has not yet come up inthe debate, which is looking at childcarestrategy in a context of a strategic debateabout children. It is crucial and is one of thereasons that the Select Committee talkedabout the strategy not being complete. Whengiving evidence to the Select Committee, wetalked about it and welcomed it as aprogramme rather than a strategy. All of uswould like to see, as Jane Hutt said when sheintroduced the motion, that when it goes toCommittee, it goes to all Committeesbecause every aspect of this Assembly’sbusiness is relevant to children. We need tosee children as a client group for all ourservices.

Nid wyf yn bwriadu mynd drwy fynhystiolaeth oherwydd mae’n 20 tudalen ohyd yn yr adroddiad. Hoffwn ganolbwyntioar fater nad yw wedi codi eto yn y ddadl,sydd yn ystyried strategaeth gofal plant yngnghyd-destun dadl strategol am blant. Mae’nhanfodol ac yn un o’r rhesymau pam ycyfeiriodd y Pwyllgor Dethol at y strategaethfel un anghyflawn. Wrth roi tystiolaeth i’rPwyllgor Dethol, yr oeddem yn ei thrafod acyn ei chroesawu fel rhaglen yn hytrach nagfel strategaeth. Byddai pob un ohonom am eigweld yn mynd i’r holl Bwyllgorau pan gaiffei chyfeirio i’w thrafod, fel y dywedodd JaneHutt wrth gyflwyno’r cynnig, oherwydd maepob agwedd ar fusnes y Cynulliad ynberthnasol i blant. Mae angen inni weld plantfel grŵp clientiaid i’n holl wasanaethau.

Local government, social servicesdepartments, education departments andleisure departments have always played a keyrole in looking at issues of childcare andchildren. However, I have always beenconcerned that childcare and children havenot been at the forefront of the thinking ofeconomic development departments in localgovernment. It is important that we do notonly look at childcare on a macro level, aswe are doing in terms of the economicgrowth in the motion. We must look at it on amicro level and look at the way all servicescontribute towards that debate.

Mae llywodraeth leol, adrannaugwasanaethau cymdeithasol, adrannauaddysg ac adrannau hamdden wedi chwaraerôl allweddol bob amser wrth ystyriedmaterion gofal plant a phlant. Fodd bynnag,yr wyf yn bryderus erioed nad yw gofal planta phlant ar flaen meddwl yr adrannaudatblygu economaidd mewn llywodraethleol. Mae’n bwysig nad ydym ond yn edrychar ofal plant ar lefel macro, fel yr ydym yngwneud mewn perthynas â chynnyddeconomaidd yn y cynnig. Rhaid inni edrycharno ar lefel micro ac ystyried y modd ymae’r holl wasanaethau’n cyfrannu at yddadl honno.

In light of that, I welcome Governmentinitiatives that have been referred to in thisChamber today. They include the Sure Startinitiative that looks at children, particularlyin deprived areas. There is also the QualityProtect initiative, which is going to act as asafeguard for children, the out of schoollearning initiative and now, the childcareinitiative. Through a holistic approach tochildren we must ensure that these initiativescross-fertilise. This is a point that has alreadybeen made today. We must have an approachto all children’s services, which is focused onpromoting children’s physical, social,emotional and intellectual development. Wemust emphasise aspects of quality, promotechild protection and welfare, and worktowards the integration of education and

Yng ngoleuni hynny, yr wyf yn croesawucynlluniau’r Llywodraeth y cyfeiriwyd atyntyn y Siambr hon heddiw. Yn eu plith y mae’rcynllun Cychwyn Cadarn sy’n rhoi sylw iblant, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedddifreintiedig. Hefyd ceir y cynllun QualityProtect, a fydd yn gweithredu fel modd iddiogelu plant, y cynllun dysgu y tu allan i’rysgol ac yn awr, y cynllun gofal plant. Drwyymagwedd gyfannol at blant rhaid innisicrhau bod y cynlluniau hynny’ncroesffrwythlonni ei gilydd. Mae hwn ynbwynt a wnaed eisoes heddiw. Rhaid innigael dull gweithredu ynghylch yr hollwasanaethau i blant, sy’n canolbwyntio arhybu datblygiad corfforol, cymdeithasol,emosiynol a deallusol y plant. Rhaid innibwysleisio agweddau ar ansawdd, hybu

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childcare provision so that our childcareprovision meets the needs of children.

diogelwch a lles plant, ac ymdrechu iintegreiddio’r ddarpariaeth addysg a gofalplant fel bod ein darpariaeth gofal plant yncyflawni anghenion y plant.

A great deal has been said today about thecost of childcare. I am a parent who, likeJane, has struggled with just about everyform of childcare. It is true that childcare isexpensive. We need to ensure there issufficient money for the target group tobenefit from an overall childcare strategy.Families caught in the poverty trap are aparticular group who must have help withchildcare costs, and we must recognise theirneeds. We must also recognise the needs ofparents who live in rural areas with longdistances to travel to access childcare, andyoung teenage parents who are still in school.We should consider families where a parentis mentally, physically, chronically sick ordisabled, or a drug or alcohol user, parentswith multiple births and children withdisabilities. When considering schoolsdevelopment in Wales, a particular issue forthe Assembly is to provide betteropportunities for students at furthereducation colleges and universities in orderto encourage young people back intolearning. We also need to consider parentswho work unsociable hours becausechildcare facilities outside usual office hoursare greatly reduced. In fact, one of the fewplaces you can get it is in the health serviceand that has never taken account of late ornight shifts.

Fe ddywedwyd llawer heddiw am gost gofalplant. Fel Jane, yr wyf yn rhiant sydd wediymgodymu â bron bob math o ofal plant.Mae’n wir bod gofal plant yn ddrud. Rhaidinni sicrhau bod digon o arian fel bod moddi’r grŵp targed elwa ar strategaeth gofalplant gyffredinol. Mae teuluoedd a ddaliwydyn y trap tlodi yn grŵp arbennig y bydd raidrhoi cymorth iddynt gyda chostau gofal plant,a rhaid inni gydnabod eu hanghenion. Rhaidinni hefyd gydnabod anghenion rhieni sy’nbyw mewn ardaloedd gwledig sydd yngorfod teithio’n bell i gael mynediad i ofalplant, a rhieni yn eu harddegau sydd yn dalyn yr ysgol. Dylem ystyried teuluoedd lle ymae rhiant â salwch meddwl, salwchcorfforol neu dymor-hir neu’n anabl, neu’nddefnyddiwr cyffuriau neu alcohol, rhieni âgenedigaethau lluosog a phlant aganableddau. Wrth ystyried datblygu ysgolionyng Nghymru, un mater arbennig i’rCynulliad yw darparu cyfleoedd gwell ifyfyrwyr mewn colegau addysg bellach aphrifysgolion er mwyn annog pobl ifanc iddychwelyd i ddysgu. Mae angen inni hefydystyried rhieni sy’n gweithio oriauanghymdeithasol oherwydd mae llawer llai ogyfleusterau gofal plant y tu allan i’r oriauswyddfa arferol. Mewn gwirionedd, un o’rychydig leoedd y gallwch gael hynny yw yny gwasanaeth iechyd ac nid yw hwnnwerioed wedi cymryd stemiau hwyr neustemiau nos i ystyriaeth.

Therefore we must look holistically at howwe tackle the childcare needs of people inWales. In doing so we must not forget thepoint that has been made today. In manycases the preference in childcare is for afamily member to undertake it. Third partyprovision must not be prescriptive. We needto ensure that we do not by dint of ourencouragement for childcare, encouragewrap-around childcare, which means that thechild has no real contact with a parent orfamily member. There is a lot for us todebate within this Assembly. I hope thatwhen this report and its recommendations is

Felly, rhaid inni edrych yn gyfannol ar ymodd y byddwn yn ymdrin ag anghenionpobl yng Nghymru am ofal plant. Wrthwneud hynny, rhaid inni beidio ag anghofio’rpwynt a wnaed heddiw. Mewn llawer achos,y dewis cyntaf yw i ofal plant gael eigyflawni gan aelod o’r teulu. Nid ywdarpariaeth gan drydydd parti i fod ynorchmynnol. Rhaid inni sicrhau na fyddwn,drwy annog gofal plant, yn annog gofal plantamgylchynol, sy’n golygu nad oes gan yplentyn unrhyw gysylltiad gwirioneddol ârhiant neu aelod o’r teulu. Mae llawer inni eidrafod yn y Cynulliad hwn. Pan anfonir yr

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sent to the Committees, they will pick up thechallenge on behalf of everybody in Wales,working or not, and focus on the needs of thechildren first.

adroddiad hwn a’i argymhellion i’rPwyllgorau, gobeithio y byddant yn derbyn ysialens ar ran pawb yng Nghymru, rai mewngwaith ac eraill, ac yn canolbwyntio aranghenion y plant yn gyntaf.

Cynog Dafis: A gaf fi ychwanegu atgynnwys y ddadl bwysig hon? Go brin fodpwnc pwysicach y gallai’r Cynulliad fod ynei drafod. Hoffwn ganolbwyntio ar unagwedd. Yr wyf yn croesawu’r ffaith fod yPwyllgor Dethol wedi paratoi’r adroddiadhwn. Nid wyf yn siŵr a wyf yn croesawu’rffaith mai Pwyllgor Dethol o Dŷ’r Cyffredinsydd ar hyn o bryd yn gosod agenda’rCynulliad hwn ond bydd y sefyllfa honno’ngwella. Yr wyf yn edrych ymlaen at ydiwrnod pan fydd pwyllgorau’r Cynulliadhwn yn cynhyrchu adroddiadau o’r unansawdd. Bydd hynny’n digwydd cyn hir.Dywedwyd eisoes, yn arbennig gan Gareth,fod profiadau’r blynyddoedd cynnar ynbwysig wrth ystyried eu heffaith ar dwfcymeriad person. Nid oes unrhyw faes aralllle mae buddsoddiad o ran adnoddau,ymdrech, gofal, cariad ac yn y blaen yn dwynffrwyth yn well nag yn ystod y blynyddoeddarbennig hyn.

Cynog Dafis: May I add to this importantdebate? There could hardly be a moreimportant subject for the Assembly todiscuss. I want to concentrate on one aspect.I welcome the fact that the Select Committeehas prepared this report. I am not surewhether I welcome the fact that a House ofCommons Select Committee currently setsthe agenda for this Assembly but thesituation will improve. I look forward to theday when the Committees of this Assemblyproduce reports of similar quality. It will nottake long until that happens. It has been saidalready, especially by Gareth, that the earlyyears experiences are of important when weconsider their effect on the development of aperson’s character. There is no other fieldwhere an investment of resources, endeavour,care, love and so on bears fruit better thanduring these particular years.

3:46 p.m.

Hoffwn gyfeirio at yr hyn yr oedd Gareth ynei ddisgrifio fel addysg-ofal. Yr ydym yn sônam strategaeth ofal ond ni ddylem sôn amofal ar wahân i addysg. Mae’r gofal goraubob amser yn addysgiadol. Dylai plentynddysgu’n barhaus tra ei fod dan ofal acmae’r addysg orau yn ofalgar.

I wish to refer to what Gareth described asedu-care. We talk about a care strategy butwe should not talk about care withoutdiscussing education. The best care is alwayseducational. A child should learn continuallywhilst under care and the best education is acaring one.

Dealltwriaeth ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd ymaes hwn a barodd i’r Llywodraethflaenorol roi adnoddau ychwanegol i’rblynyddoedd cynnar. Cafwyd pwysauaruthrol o bob cyfeiriad; yr oedd ydystiolaeth yn llethol a phenderfynodd yLlywodraeth gyflwyno mesurau newydd. Ynanffodus, penderfynodd fynd i gyfeiriadtalebau addysg feithrin. Cafwydgwrthwynebiad cyffredinol i hynny—yroedd bron yn unfrydol yng Nghymru.Cafwyd adroddiad gan y Pwyllgor Detholynglŷn â hynny. Mynnodd y Llywodraeth eiwthio drwodd, er ei bod ar drothwy etholiad

It was an understanding of the importance ofthis field that caused the previousGovernment to give additional resources tothe early years. There was massive pressurefrom all directions, the evidence wasoverwhelming and the Government decidedto introduce new measures. Unfortunately, itdecided to go along the line of nurseryeducation vouchers. There was generalopposition to that—it was almost unanimousin Wales. The Select Committee produced areport on that. The Government insisted onpushing it through, although it was on thethreshold of a general election and there was

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cyffredinol a bod posibilrwydd cryf ybyddai’r dull hwnnw’n cael ei wrthdroi.Felly a fu.

a strong possibility that the method would beoverturned. That is what happened.

Wedyn, cawsom y dynesiad newydd, sy’nedrych yn rhagorol ar bapur. Mae’nawgrymu creu partneriaethau lleol llebyddai’r sector statudol, y sector gwirfoddolac elfennau o’r sector preifat yn dod at eigilydd i gydweithio. Byddent yn sicrhau ydefnyddir adnoddau yn effeithiol fel ein bodyn cael dynesiad integredig. Mae’r hyn syddwedi digwydd yn enghraifft dda o’r ffordd ygall y dymuniadau a’r bwriadau gorauarwain at ganlyniadau anffodus. Mae Garethwedi sôn am hynny eisoes.

We then had the new approach, which lookswonderful on paper. It suggests creating localpartnerships where the statutory sector, thevoluntary sector and elements of the privatesector would come together to co-operate.They would ensure that resources are usedeffectively so that we have an integratedapproach. Past events are a good example ofthe way in which the best wishes andintentions can lead to unfortunate results.Gareth has already mentioned that.

Cafwyd digon o rybuddio y gallai pethaufynd o’u lle a rhybuddiwyd mewn da brydynglŷn â’r drwg-effeithiau a ddisgrifir yn yradroddiad hwn. Anfonais sawl llythyr atPeter Hain, yn dilyn trafodaethau â’rmudiadau addysg feithrin Cymraeg aSaesneg yng Nghymru, yn ei rybuddioynghylch y mater. Mewn cyfarfod â PeterHain, apeliodd y Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrinarno i sicrhau bod canllawiau’rpartneriaethau lleol yn gwarchod rhag yr hynsydd wedi digwydd. Dadleuais yn Nhŷ’rCyffredin am 3 o’r gloch y bore ar y MesurSafonau a Fframwaith Ysgolion er mwyntynnu sylw at y perygl. Mae adroddiad yPwyllgor Dethol yn cyfiawnhau’r hollbryderon a fynegwyd bryd hynny.

There were plenty of warnings that thingscould go wrong and there were warnings inplenty of time as regards the bad effectsdescribed in this report. I sent many letters toPeter Hain, following discussions with theWelsh and English nursery education groupsin Wales, warning him about the matter. In ameeting with Peter Hain, the Welsh nurseryschools movement, Mudiad YsgolionMeithrin, appealed to him to ensure that theguidelines for local partnerships safeguardedus from what has happened. I debated in theHouse of Commons at 3 a.m. on the SchoolStandards and Framework Bill to drawattention to the dangers. The SelectCommittee’s report justifies all the concernsthat were voiced at that time.

Nid wyf yn ymddiheuro am ailadrodd ganfod y mater mor bwysig. Mae ysgolion yndenu plant tair a phedair oed a chaiff hynnyeffaith ddinistriol ar ddarpariaeth wirfoddol.Daw plant i’r ysgol ar eu trydydd penblwydd. O ganlyniad, mae grwpiau meithringwirfoddol yn cau, mae darpariaeth ar gyferplant yn llai hygyrch na chynt a cheirdarpariaeth amhriodol i blant yn yr ysgol ganeu bod yn cael eu dysgu mewn fforddamhriodol yn y dosbarthiadau derbyn.

I do not apologise for repeating as the matteris so important. Schools are attracting threeand four year olds and that has a destructiveeffect on voluntary provision. Children enterschool on their third birthday. As a result,voluntary nursery groups are closing,provision for children is less accessible thanpreviously and there is inappropriateprovision for children in schools because theyare taught in an inappropriate manner in thereception classes.

Mae lle i gredu bod hynny’n gwneud drwg i’rplant gan ei fod yn creu rhwystredigaeth adiflastod ac yn peri iddynt golli diddordeb.Mewn llawer o achosion, maent yn caelprofiadau negyddol o addysg yn gynnar yn eubywydau. Rhaid iddynt ganolbwyntio ar

There is room to believe that it can beharmful to the children as it createsfrustration and boredom and causes them tolose interest. In many cases, they havenegative experiences of education early inlife. They have to concentrate on formal

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ddysgu ffurfiol a sgiliau llythrennedd arhifedd yn rhy gynnar, ac mae hynny’ngwneud drwg iddynt o ran datblygiad. Gallfod yn wrthgynhyrchiol.

learning and literacy and numeracy skills tooearly and that is harmful to theirdevelopment. It can be counter-productive.

Ar yr un pryd, mae cyfranogiad rhieni ynlleihau. Un o’r pethau mwyaf cyffrousynglŷn â’r sector gwirfoddol yw’r ffordd ymae rhieni yn cael eu denu i gefnogi’r cylchmeithrin, bod yn rhan ohono a chodi arian arei gyfer. Yn aml, mae rhieni nad ydynt wedicael profiad da o addysg yn penderfynuderbyn addysg ar ôl cymryd rhan mewngweithgarwch meithrin. Mae’r cyfuniad obethau sydd yn digwydd yn y sectorgwirfoddol yn gyffrous. Ceir cyfraniadauariannol i’r sector gwirfoddol nad ydych mordebyg o’u cael yn y sector statudol. SonioddVal Feld am bwysigrwydd sicrhau bod yfenter hon yn llwyddo. Mae’n angenrheidioladnabod rôl gadarnhaol, creadigol agwerthfawr y sector meithrin er mwyngwneud hynny.

At the same time, parental contribution islessened. One of the most exciting thingsabout the voluntary sector is the way inwhich parents are attracted to support thenursery group, to be part of it and to raisemoney for it. Often, parents who have nothad a good experience of education decide togo into education after taking part in nurseryactivity. The combination of things that arehappening in the voluntary sector is exciting.There are financial contributions to thevoluntary sector that are not as likely to beforthcoming in the statutory sector. Val Feldmentioned the importance of ensuring thatthis enterprise succeeds. To do that, it isessential to recognise the nursery sector’spositive, creative and valuable role.

Carwn sôn am effaith niweidiol yr hyn sy’ndigwydd ar hyn o bryd ar ragolygon yGymraeg. Mae ymchwil gan Fwrdd yr IaithGymraeg wedi darganfod bod tua 50 y cant orieni Cymru wedi datgan y byddent am i’wplant gael addysg feithrin Gymraeg pe byddaiar gael ac yn gyfleus. Mae hynny’n sylfaen argyfer adfywiad cyffrous i’r Gymraeg.

I wish to mention the present situation’sdamaging effect on the Welsh language’sprospects. Research by the Welsh LanguageBoard has declared that about 50 per cent ofparent in Wales have stated that they wouldwant their children to receive Welsh nurseryeducation if it were available and convenient.That it is a foundation for an exciting revivalfor the Welsh language.

Mae adfywiad addysg Gymraeg wedi’iadeiladu i raddau helaeth ar weithgarwchunedau cyn-ysgol ac ysgolion meithrinCymraeg. Dyma yw sylfaen y twf aruthrolmewn addysg Gymraeg yn yr ardaloeddSeisnig yn arbennig. Yn awr, mae plant ifancyn cael eu tynnu i’r ysgolion ac mae unedaumeithrin yn cau. Golyga hynny fod yn rhaid iblant deithio ymhellach er mwyn cael addysgfeithrin. Mae hynny’n annerbyniol i rieni âphlant bach iawn. Mae’r ddarpariaeth argyfer plant dwy a hanner a thair oed hefyd yncael ei thanseilio gan fod yr uned wedilleihau. O ganlyniad, ceir proses o ddirywio.

The revival of Welsh education has beenbuilt on the activities of Welsh pre-schoolunits and nursery schools to a great extent.That is the foundation of the huge growth inWelsh education, particularly in theAnglicised areas. Young children are beingdrawn into the schools and nursery units areclosing. That means that children have totravel further to have nursery education. Thatis unacceptable to parents with very smallchildren. Provision for two and a half andthree year-old children is also underminedbecause the unit is smaller. As a result, thereis a process of decline.

Wedi peintio’r darlun du hwnnw, apeliaf aryr Ysgrifenyddion perthnasol, RosemaryButler a Jane Hutt, i ymyrryd ar frys i atal ybroses niweidiol hon rhag parhau. Fel rhan o

Having painted that black picture, I appeal tothe relevant Secretaries, Rosemary Butlerand Jane Hutt, to interfere urgently toprevent this damaging process from

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agenda ehangach a chyn gynted â phosibl,rhaid inni symud y cymhelliad ariannol sy’nperi bod ysgolion yn awyddus i ddenu plant.Mae angen ystyried hynny hefyd.

proceeding. As part of a wider agenda and assoon as possible, we must move the financialincentive that means that schools are eager toattract children. That must also beconsidered.

Er mwyn rhwystro’r sefyllfa rhag gwaethygu,dylem apelio ar ysgolion i beidio â chymrydplant ar eu pen blwydd yn dair oed. Pe baentyn mynd i’r ysgol yn y mis Medi yn dilyn eutrydydd pen blwydd, byddai hynny’nysgafnhau problemau’r grwpiau meithrin.

To prevent the situation from worsening, wemust appeal to schools not to take in childrenon their third birthday. If they went to schoolin the September following their thirdbirthday, that would lighten the burden forthe nursery groups.

Brian Gibbons: If the ubiquitous martianarrived in Wales, expecting to see a societyorganised according to social needs, it wouldexpect to see good childcare facilities inareas with the highest levels of under-age andteenage pregnancies, the highest rates of lowbirth weights, the highest levels of economicinactivity among men and women, and lowerGross Domestic Product levels.

Brian Gibbons: Pe bai’r dyn bach hwnnw oFawrth yn cyrraedd Cymru, gan ddisgwylgweld cymdeithas a drefnwyd yn ôlanghenion cymdeithasol, byddai’n disgwylgweld cyfleusterau gofal plant da yn yrardaloedd sydd â’r lefelau uchaf oenedigaethau i fenywod dan oed ac yn euharddegau, y cyfraddau uchaf o bwysau geniisel, y lefelau uchaf o anweithgareddeconomaidd ymysg dynion a benywod, a’rlefelau Cynnyrch Mewnwladol Crynswythisaf.

The tables on social exclusion that we sawlast week showed that that is not the case.The level of provision is an exact mirrorimage of the degree of social exclusion invarious communities. The lack of appropriatechildcare facilities begins to create a self-perpetuating vicious circle in which familiesare excluded from economic activity.Consequently, they are condemned tocontinuing low income, a loss ofindependence and self-esteem and thebeginning of a culture of dependency.

Mae’r tablau ar ddieithrwch cymdeithasol awelsom yr wythnos diwethaf yn dangos nadfelly y mae. Mae’r lefel o ddarpariaeth ynunion i’r gwrthwyneb i’r graddau oddieithrwch cymdeithasol mewn gwahanolgymunedau. Mae diffyg cyfleusterau gofalplant priodol yn dechrau creu cylchcythreulig lle y bydd teuluoedd wedi eu cauallan o weithgaredd economaidd. Oganlyniad i hynny, fe’u condemnir i barhauar incwm isel, maent yn colli annibyniaeth ahunan-barch ac yn dechrau diwylliant oddibyniaeth.

Childcare is fundamental in breaking thevicious circle of social deprivation andexclusion. One of the key areas, which anumber of people have mentioned, isaffordability. As the report says, manypeople in employment find it extremelydifficult to afford childcare. There will bemuch greater demands on communities withhigh levels of economic inactivity and socialdeprivation. Many of these communities lackthe enterprising and entrepreneurial spirit tostart up a private enterprise and there areopportunities there. As David mentioned,many of these communities look for

Mae gofal plant yn hanfodol er mwyn torricylch cythreulig amddifadedd a dieithrwchcymdeithasol. Un o’r meysydd allweddol, ycyfeiriwyd ato gan sawl un, ywfforddiadwyedd. Fel y dywed yr adroddiad,mae llawer o bobl mewn cyflogaeth yn eichael yn anodd iawn fforddio gofal plant.Bydd llawer mwy o alwadau ar gymunedau âlefelau uchel o anweithgaredd economaidd adieithrwch cymdeithasol. Mae llawer o’rcymunedau hyn heb yr ysbryd mentrus acentrepreneuraidd sy’n angenrheidiol iddechrau menter breifat ac mae cyfleoedd yny fan honno. Fel y dywedodd David, bydd

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resources within themselves. It may be thatworking with these communities will promptcommunity based childcare facilities. Thereport has a number of good points as ithighlights areas where groups andcommunities may go to look for help andsupport to get childcare provision off theground.

llawer o’r cymunedau hyn yn chwilio amadnoddau o fewn eu cylch eu hunain. Efallaidrwy weithio gyda’r cymunedau hyn y ceirhwb i greu cyfleusterau gofal plantcymunedol. Mae nifer o bwyntiau da yn yradroddiad lle y mae’n tynnu sylw at feysyddlle y gallai grwpiau a chymunedau chwilioam gymorth a chefnogaeth i gychwyndarpariaeth gofal plant.

3:56 p.m.

One of the main issues of childcareaffordability is transport poverty. Many ofthe more socially deprived areas are far fromwhere employment can be found. Manypeople from socially deprived or excludedareas work in places where the jobs are lowpaid. These families take longer to travel towork and have higher travel-to-work costs.They come from areas where private carownership is already very low. The tablesthat we were presented with last week showmany communities in Wales wherehousehold access to private transport is aslow as 30 or 40 per cent. For people trying toget to work, trying to get childcare, cominghome from work, accessing their childcare,getting home and caring for a family, it is anightmare in terms of cost and time. Thereport does not really resolve those issues.We must consider childcare in its totality andtransport is a key issue.

Un o’r prif faterion ynglŷn â fforddiadwyeddgofal plant yw tlodi cludiant. Mae llawer o’rardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig yngymdeithasol yn bell o’r mannau lle y gellircanfod cyflogaeth. Mae llawer o’r boblmewn ardaloedd sydd wedi eu hamddifaduneu eu dieithrio’n gymdeithasol yn gweithiomewn mannau lle mae’r swyddi’n rhai âchyflogau isel. Mae gan y teuluoedd hyn fwyo daith i gyrraedd eu gwaith ac mae eu costauteithio’n uwch. Maent yn dod o ardaloedd llemae lefel perchnogaeth ceir preifat eisoes ynisel iawn. Mae’r tablau a gyflwynwyd inni yrwythnos diwethaf yn dangos llawer ogymunedau yng Nghymru lle mae mynediadteuluoedd at gludiant preifat gyn ised â 30 i40 y cant. Yn achos pobl sy’n ceisio cyrraeddeu gwaith, yn ceisio cael gofal i’w plant, yndod adref o’u gwaith, yn nôl eu plant o’r llegofal, yn cyrraedd adref ac yn gofalu amdeulu, mae hyn yn hunllef o ran cost acamser. Nid yw’r adroddiad yn datrys ymaterion hyn mewn gwirionedd. Rhaid inniystyried gofal plant yn ei gyfanrwydd ac maecludiant yn fater allweddol.

There are two other points in the report thatare worth considering. As others have said,much of the drive and focus of this report isback to work and welfare to work driven bythe economic incentive. There is also a needfor the therapeutic role of childcare facilitiesas many disadvantaged families lack properdomestic support and parenting skills. Propercommunity based childcare facilities canplay a major remedial role in helping themout of their difficulties. I know of manyfamilies who have been unable to accessthese services, not because the need did notexist, but because the means to availthemselves of such facilities did not exist.

Mae dau bwynt arall yn yr adroddiad sydd ynwerth eu hystyried. Fel y nododd eraill, maellawer o gyfeiriad a ffocws yr adroddiad hwnyn ymwneud â dychwelyd i waith a symud ofudd-daliadau i waith dan ddylanwad ycymhelliant economaidd. Mae angen hefydam rôl therapiwtig cyfleusterau gofal plantgan fod llawer o deuluoedd difreintiedig hebgefnogaeth briodol yn y cartref a medraurhiant. Fe all cyfleusterau gofal plant priodolyn y gymuned chwarae rôl adferol bwysigdrwy eu helpu allan o’u trafferthion. Fe wnam lawer o deuluoedd sydd heb allu caelmynediad i’r gwasanaethau hyn, nid am nadoedd yr angen yn bod, ond am nad oedd

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modd iddynt fanteisio ar gyfleusterau o’rfath.

The report’s emphasis on rules andregulations and the lack of emphasis onprofessionalism and good practice isprobably a British characteristic. That is aninteresting cultural observation, which isprobably relevant to childcare and manyways that services and public services areprovided in the United Kingdom.

Mae pwyslais yr adroddiad ar reolau arheoliadau ac mae’r diffyg pwyslais arbroffesiynoldeb ac ymarfer da yn nodweddBrydeinig, yn fwy na thebyg. Mae hynny’nsylw diwylliannol diddorol, sydd yn debygolo fod yn berthnasol i ofal plant ac i’r modd ycyflenwir llawer o wasanaethau agwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn y DeyrnasUnedig.

In conclusion, I think this is a helpful report.It brings out many of the pertinent childcareissues. It emphasises the key role thatchildcare will have in improving socialexclusion and dealing with problems ofeconomic inactivity. We talk about roads,rail, telecommunications and so on, but thereport raises a number of key issues aboutsocial infrastructure, which communitiesneed to enable them to partake fully inmodern society. That is a key element. Thisreport highlights the need for a socialstructure, particularly in childcare.

I derfynu, credaf fod yr adroddiad hwn ogymorth. Mae’n tynnu sylw at lawer o’rmaterion perthnasol mewn gofal plant.Mae’n pwysleisio’r rôl allweddol a gaiffgofal plant wrth leihau dieithrwchcymdeithasol a delio â phroblemauanweithgaredd economaidd. Byddwn yn sônam ffyrdd, rheilffyrdd, telegyfathrebu ac yn yblaen, ond mae’r adroddiad yn codi nifer ofaterion allweddol ynghylch yr isadeileddcymdeithasol y mae ar gymunedau ei angenfel y gallant gymryd rhan gyflawn yn ygymdeithas gyfoes. Mae hynny’n elfenallweddol. Mae’r adroddiad hwn yn tynnusylw at yr angen am strwythur cymdeithasol,yn enwedig mewn gofal plant.

Kirsty Williams: I do not think anyone inthis Chamber would disagree and not notethe importance of childcare for families andchildren in Wales, as it asks us to do in themotion. I do not believe that the mostchauvinistic of Assembly Members woulddare to assume that childcare is a matter forwomen alone. I urge anybody who has notrun the gauntlet in trying to organise theirown childcare provision, like Jane, to readthe experiences of those who are jugglingchildcare with the economic necessity ofhaving to work. They would be left in nodoubt that it is a nightmare trying to organiseboth aspects of their life.

Kirsty Williams: Nid wyf yn credu y byddaineb yn y Siambr hon yn anghytuno ac ynpeidio â nodi pwysigrwydd gofal plant ideuluoedd a phlant yng Nghymru, fel ygofynnir i ni wneud yn y cynnig. Ni chredafy byddai’r Aelodau mwyaf siofinistaidd o’rCynulliad yn meiddio tybio bod gofal plantyn fater i fenywod yn unig. Anogaf bawb nadyw wedi mynd drwy’r felin wrth geisiotrefnu ei ddarpariaeth gofal plant ei hun, fel ygwnaeth Jane, i ddarllen profiadau’r rhai sy’ngorfod cyfuno gofal plant â’r angeneconomaidd i weithio. Ni fyddai ganddyntunrhyw amheuaeth wedyn mai hunllef ywceisio trefnu’r ddwy agwedd ar eu bywyd.

In Wales, we have a mountain to climb if weare to put in place a network of child-centred,quality, accessible and affordable childcareplaces. This is certainly not what we have atpresent. The UK is a long way behind ourEuropean neighbours. Whilst I am sure Valwill be glad to know that I have not come to

Yng Nghymru, mae gennym fynydd o waithi’w gyflawni os ydym i sefydlu rhwydwaith oleoedd mewn gofal plant sy’n blant-ganolog,yn hygyrch, yn fforddiadwy ac o ansawdd da.Nid hynny sydd gennym ar hyn o bryd, ynsicr. Mae’r DU ymhell ar ôl ein cymdogionEwropeaidd. Er y bydd Val yn falch o wybod

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bury this report, I have not come to praise itwithout question either. We must note thatthere are huge discrepancies in access tochildcare across Wales. It is often in theplaces where it is most desperately neededthat provision is at its worst. If we are toaddress this, it will need to receive asignificant amount of additional funding asmentioned in the Liberal Democratamendment. As outlined in paragraph 38 ofthe report, the reality is that in the mostdisadvantaged communities, childcare willonly be affordable and sustainable if it issubsidised. Funding is key. Grand plans formore places are admirable, but there is oftena problem with keeping schemes open. Thereis often a complete lack of sustainablefunding and this must be acknowledged inthe strategy we develop. We must alsoacknowledge that good care is not cheap.

na ddeuthum i gladdu’r adroddiad hwn, niddeuthum i’w ganmol yn ddigwestiwnychwaith. Rhaid inni nodi bodanghysonderau mawr yn y mynediad i ofalplant ar draws Cymru. Mae’r ddarpariaeth ynaml ar ei gwaethaf yn yr ardaloedd lle ymae’r angen mwyaf dybryd. Os ydym iymdrin â hyn, bydd raid cael swm sylweddolo arian ychwanegol fel y crybwyllir yngngwelliant y Democratriaid Rhyddfrydol. Felyr amlinellir ym mharagraff 38 yn yradroddiad, y gwir yw na fydd gofal plant ynfforddiadwy yn y cymunedau mwyafdifreintiedig os na fydd cymhorthdal ar eigyfer. Ariannu yw’r allwedd. Mae cynlluniaumawr am fwy o leoedd yn ganmoladwy, ondfe geir problem yn aml wrth gadwcynlluniau’n agored. Yn aml, bydd diffygllwyr o ariannu cynaliadwy a rhaid cydnabodhyn yn y strategaeth a ddatblygwn. Rhaidinni hefyd gydnabod nad yw gofal da ynrhad.

I was glad to hear Jane mention the role ofEuropean funding in setting up one of theprojects in which she was involved. Iwelcome her acceptance of the LiberalDemocrat amendment, which mentionsEuropean funding. I know the First Secretarygets a bit jumpy when European structuralfunds are mentioned. However, I want todraw his attention to the report’s conclusionthat European structural funds are potentiallya rich source for childcare provision andfunding. I am sure that when the time comes,Mr Michael, the Government will not let thechildren of Wales down.

Yr oeddwn yn falch o glywed Jane yn sôn amrôl ariannu Ewropeaidd wrth sefydlu un o’rprojectau yr oedd yn ymwneud â hwy.Croesawaf y ffaith ei bod yn derbyngwelliant y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, sy’ncrybwyll ariannu Ewropeaidd. Gwn fod yPrif Ysgrifennydd yn dechrau aflonyddu pansonnir am gronfeydd strwythurol Ewrop.Fodd bynnag, yr wyf am dynnu ei sylw atgasgliad yr adroddiad bod potensial igronfeydd strwythurol Ewrop fod ynffynhonnell doreithiog ar gyfer darparu acariannu gofal plant. Pan ddaw’r amser, MrMichael, yr wyf yn sicr na fydd yLlywodraeth yn siomi plant Cymru.

The First Secretary: Thank you for theopportunity to respond. I get very excitedabout structural funds because they can beused positively. I am perfectly happy toendorse the comment you have just madebecause you are reflecting the opportunitythat is there if we engage with usingstructural funds properly. I get slightlyirritated when people are chewing the carcassof a very old song rather than looking at howwe best use the opportunity. Clearly you arenot doing that.

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Diolch am y cyfle iymateb. Byddaf yn teimlo’n gynhyrfus iawnynghylch cronfeydd strwythurol am fodmodd eu defnyddio’n gadarnhaol. Yr wyf yngwbl fodlon ategu’r sylw yr ydych newydd eiwneud am eich bod yn dangos y cyfle syddar gael os byddwn yn ynwneud â defnyddio’rcronfeydd strwythurol yn iawn. Byddaf ynteimlo braidd yn biwis pan fydd pobl yncanu’r un dôn gron yn hytrach nag edrych ary modd y gallwn ddefnyddio’r cyfle i’reithaf. Mae’n amlwg nad ydych yn gwneudhynny.

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Kirsty Williams: I am sorry if I mistookjumpiness for excitedness. I also welcomethe emphasis on partnership in the report. Noone sector can provide all the answers. Weneed to respect the strengths of each type ofprovision. We must draw on public, privateand voluntary provision within a regulatoryframework that provides peace of mind forparents. We must develop partnershipsbetween providers to foster effectiveintegration of care and education. We mustalso keep in mind that provision is not justabout nine to five; we need varied andflexible childcare provision. We mustaddress those who often get left behind: newbabies, children with disabilities, childrenover ten and those living in rural areas.

Kirsty Williams: Mae’n ddrwg gennyf oscamgymerais gynnwrf am aflonyddwch. Yrwyf hefyd yn croesawu’r pwyslais arbartneriaeth yn yr adroddiad. Ni all yr unsector roi’r holl atebion ar ei ben ei hun.Rhaid inni barchu cryfderau pob math oddarpariaeth. Rhaid inni elwa ar yddarpariaeth gyhoeddus, preifat a gwirfoddolo fewn fframwaith rheoliadol sy’n rhoitawelwch meddwl i rieni. Rhaid inniddatblygu partneriaethau rhwng darparwyr ifeithrin integreiddio effeithiol rhwng gofal acaddysg. Rhaid inni gofio hefyd nad yw’rddarpariaeth yn un rhwng naw a phump o’rgloch yn unig; mae arnom angen darpariaethgofal plant amrywiol a hyblyg. Rhaid inni roisylw i’r rhai sydd yn aml yn cael eu gadael arôl: babanod newydd, plant ag anableddau,plant dros ddeg oed a rhai sy’n byw mewnardaloedd gwledig.

In recent years and in the past couple ofmonths, we have heard many worryingstories of the inappropriate behaviour ofthose looking after some of our children.There are many ways of ensuring theirprotection: police checks, registrationschemes, training and the like. However, theChildren’s Commissioner for Wales shouldbe at the pinnacle of child protection. Iwelcome the urgent priority given to this bythe Health and Social Services Committeeand indeed, we begin our deliberations onthat issue tomorrow. That Children’sCommissioner must be a champion for allyoung people in Wales, whatever theircircumstances. The post must have the powerand discretion to assure parents in Wales thattheir children, whatever their childcareprovision, are in the best possible hands.

Yn y blynyddoedd a’r misoedd diwethaf hyn,fe glywsom lawer o storïau sy’n peri gofidam ymddygiad amhriodol gan rai sy’ngwarchod rhai o’n plant. Mae llawer modd isicrhau eu bod wedi eu diogelu: gwiriadaugan yr heddlu, cynlluniau cofrestru,hyfforddi a phethau tebyg. Fodd bynnag,dylai Comisiynydd Plant Cymru fod ar frig ygyfundrefn diogelu plant. Croesawaf yflaenoriaeth frys a roddir i hyn gan yPwyllgor Iechyd a GwasanaethauCymdeithasol ac, yn wir, byddwn yn dechrautrafod y mater hwnnw yfory. Rhaid i’rComisiynydd Plant hwnnw sefyll dros hollbobl ifanc Cymru, beth bynnag fo’uhamgylchiadau. Rhaid i’r swydd feddu ar ypŵer a’r gallu i roi sicrwydd i rieni yngNghymru fod eu plant, beth bynnag fo’rddarpariaeth gofal ar eu cyfer, yn y dwylogorau posibl.

4:06 p.m.

Janet Ryder: I should declare an interest.Until two weeks ago, I was the chairman ofDenbighshire’s early years partnership.Partnerships are often talked about in thisdocument and are much criticised. It is onlyfair to set the scene in respect of theirdevelopment. They were established in 1997-98 as the early years developmentpartnerships. Within a year of their inception,

Janet Ryder: Fe ddylwn ddatgan diddordeb.Tan ddwy flynedd yn ôl, yr oeddwn yngadeirydd ar bartneriaeth blynyddoeddcynnar Sir Ddinbych. Fe sonnir yn aml ambartneriaethau yn y ddogfen hon a cheirllawer o feirniadu arnynt. Nid yw ond yn degi gyflwyno’r cefndir ynghylch eu datblygiad.Fe’u sefydlwyd yn 1997-98 felpartneriaethau datblygu’r blynyddoedd

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they were asked to transform into childcarepartnerships, enlarging their membership andbringing in more people. The partnershipsthat we have heard so much about thisafternoon may not function properly but theyalready exist throughout Wales.

cynnar. O fewn blwyddyn ar ôl eu sefydlu,gofynnwyd iddynt newid yn bartneriaethaugofal plant, gan ehangu eu haelodaeth a dod âmwy o bobl i mewn. Efallai nad yw’rpartneriaethau y clywsom gymaint amdanyntbrynhawn heddiw yn gweithredu’n iawn ondmaent yn bod eisoes ym mhob rhan o Gymru.

The way that they were set up has createdmany frustrations within the partnerships.Cynog mentioned many of them, such asmoney going from the education departmentstraight into schools. Authorities were askedto lead in the development of thesepartnerships and money was to go throughthem. However, the authorities did not sendthat money into the communities as theyshould have done. I hope that the two, orhowever many, Committees that will dealwith this matter will look carefully at thefunding mechanisms for the many kinds ofearly years childcare provision.

Mae’r ffordd y’u sefydlwyd wedi creu llawero rwystredigaethau o fewn y partneriaethau.Soniodd Cynog am lawer ohonynt, fel arianyn mynd yn syth o’r adran addysg i ysgolion.Gofynnwyd i’r awdurdodau arwain wrthddatblygu’r partneriaethau ac yr oedd arian ifod i fynd drwyddynt hwy. Fodd bynnag, niyrrodd yr awdurdodau’r arian i’r cymunedaufel y dylasent fod wedi gwneud. Gobeithio ybydd y ddau Bwyllgor, neu ba nifer bynnag,fydd yn ymdrin â’r mater hwn yn edrych ynofalus ar y mecanweithiau ariannu i’r amrywfathau o ddarpariaeth gofal plant yn yblynyddoedd cynnar.

Funding was a problem for the partnershipswhen they were set up. They wereestablished as separate from local councils.In fact, there was no role for local councils.However, the partnerships were to developthe strategy that local councils had to adopt,so there was tension about how to get thepolicies and strategies that the localpartnerships wanted to implement on tocounty council agendas. I hope that theCommittees that review this document willlook at that.

Yr oedd ariannu’n broblem i’r partneriaethaupan sefydlwyd hwy. Fe’u sefydlwyd arwahân i gynghorau lleol. Mewn gwirionedd,nid oedd rôl ynddynt i gynghorau lleol. Foddbynnag, y partneriaethau oedd i ddatblygu’rstrategaeth yr oedd y cynghorau lleol yngorfod ei mabwysiadu, felly yr oedd tyndraynghylch y modd i gael y polisïau a’rstrategaethau yr oedd y partneriaethau am eugweithredu ar agendâu’r cynghorau sir.Gobeithio y bydd y Pwyllgorau sy’nadolygu’r ddogfen hon yn edrych ar hynny.

The partnerships needed funding to establishthemselves and were completely reliant onlocal authorities for secretarial support. Thelocal authorities’ budgets and offices werealso under pressure. The partnerships neededmoney straightaway. The money that theyhave been given for support and to developstrategies has been short term. I welcome thesuggestion that you might look at 10-yearfunding. That would give stability toprojects. However, please learn the lessonsof the all-Wales strategy money, which wasused to develop projects for people withlearning disabilities. When that ring-fencingwas taken away, many of those projectscollapsed.

Yr oedd ar y partneriaethau angen arian i’wsefydlu eu hunain ac yr oeddent yn gwblddibynnol ar yr awdurdodau lleol amgefnogaeth ysgrifenyddol. Yr oeddcyllidebau a swyddfeydd yr awdurdodau lleoldan bwysau hefyd. Yr oedd ar ypartneriaethau angen arian ar unwaith. Mae’rarian a roddwyd iddynt ar gyfer cefnogaethac i ddatblygu strategaethau yn arian tymor-byr. Croesawaf yr awgrym y gallech ystyriedariannu dros 10 mlynedd. Byddai hynny’nrhoi sefydlogrwydd i brojectau. Foddbynnag, yr wyf yn gofyn ichi ddysgu’r gwersiyn sgil arian strategaeth Cymru gyfan, addefnyddiwyd i ddatblygu projectau ar gyferpobl ag anableddau dysgu. Pan ddiddymwydy cyllid neilltuol, daeth llawer o’r projectau

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hynny i ben.

We must consider how funding is madeavailable. It needs to be long term to giveprojects security. There are many projectsthat need to be developed, such as thechildren’s information bureaux, which arevital to help parents access good childcareand other children’s services but cannotbecome self-funding. They will continue toneed money. Local councils do not have theluxury of being able to supply it so I hopethat the Committees will reconsider funding.

Rhaid inni ystyried ym mha fodd y mae’rarian i’w ddarparu. Rhaid iddo fod drosdymor hir er mwyn rhoi sicrwydd i brojectau.Mae llawer o brojectau y bydd angen eudatblygu, fel y canolfannau gwybodaethplant, sy’n hanfodol i helpu rhieni i gaelmynediad at ofal plant da a gwasanaethauplant eraill, ond sydd heb y gallu i’whariannu eu hunain. Nid oes modd gan ycynghorau lleol i’w ddarparu felly gobeithioy bydd y Pwyllgorau’n ailystyried euhariannu.

There is much that is valuable in thedocument. It is the way forward. However,the partnerships need a lot of help andsupport. I welcome the suggestion that youmay consider giving them that on an all-Wales level. I echo what has been said aboutchildcare and the provision for children’sneeds covering every aspect of service. It isnot an issue restricted to education or thesocial services. It covers technical services,highways, housing and everything else. Allchildren have needs and those needs are metin many ways.

Ceir llawer yn y ddogfen sy’n werthfawr.Hon yw’r ffordd ymlaen. Fodd bynnag, maeangen llawer o gymorth a chefnogaeth ar ypartneriaethau. Yr wyf yn croesawu’rawgrym y gallech ystyried rhoi hynny iddyntar lefel Cymru gyfan. Ategaf yr hyn addywedwyd am ofal plant a bod darparu argyfer anghenion plant yn cynnwys pobagwedd o wasanaethau. Nid yw’n fater sy’ngyfyngedig i addysg neu i’r gwasanaethaucymdeithasol. Mae’n cwmpasu gwasanaethautechnegol, priffyrdd, tai a phob dim arall.Mae gan bob plentyn anghenion ac fe atebiryr anghenion hynny mewn llawer ffordd.

Christine Chapman: I add my voice tothose of the speakers who have made pointsabout affordability. It is the issue in thisdebate. As the Select Committee reportstates, ‘affordability is crucial to childcare inWales’.

Christine Chapman: Yr wyf yn ychwanegufy llais at rai’r siaradwyr a wnaeth bwyntiauam fforddiadwyedd. Dyna’r mater yn y ddadlhon. Fel y dywed adroddiad y PwyllgorDethol, ‘affordability is crucial to childcarein Wales’.

Any childcare strategy that we are asked toadopt in this Assembly must ensure thataffordibility of childcare is paramount. Ioften mention the problems faced in deprivedareas such as Cynon Valley. The socialdeprivation faced by some of my constituentswas highlighted again in the programme ThePoint on BBC2 Wales last week. It is thisbackground that leads me to agree withcertain of the reservations made by the SelectCommittee in its report. I will explain why.

Bydd unrhyw strategaeth gofal plant ygofynnir inni ei mabwysiadu yn y Cynulliadhwn yn gorfod sicrhau bod fforddiadwyeddgofal plant yn cael y lle blaenaf. Byddaf ynsôn yn aml am y problemau a wynebir mewnardaloedd difreintiedig fel Cwm Cynon.Tynnwyd sylw eto at yr amddifadeddcymdeithasol a wynebir gan rai o’mhetholwyr yn y rhaglen The Point ar BBC2Wales yr wythnos diwethaf. Y cefndirhwnnw sy’n f’arwain i gytuno â rhai o’ramheuon a fynegwyd gan y Pwyllgor Detholyn ei adroddiad. Fe egluraf pam.

To me and, more importantly, to myconstituents, childcare provision in the

Yn fy marn i ac, yn bwysicach, ym marnf’etholwyr, mae darpariaeth gofal plant yng

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Cynon Valley is irrelevant unless it isaffordable. It is not good enough to point justto existing provision as many of the mostdisadvantaged families cannot use it due toprohibitive costs. It is another aspect of thesocial exclusion faced by families on thelowest incomes and on benefits. To this end,I wholeheartedly welcome the introduction ofthe working families tax credit with itschildcare tax credit element. It addresses thechildcare cost faced by many low-incomefamilies in work. However, we also need tolook at those who work less than 16 hoursper week, as many of my constituents do.

Nghwm Cynon yn amherthnasol os nad yw’nfforddiadwy. Nid yw’n ddigon da cyfeirio aty ddarpariaeth bresennol yn unig oherwyddnid oes modd i lawer o’r teuluoedd mwyafdifreintiedig ei defnyddio oherwydd y costaugormodol. Mae’n agwedd arall ar ydieithrwch cymdeithasol a wynebir gandeuluoedd ar yr incwm isaf ac ar fudd-daliadau. I’r diben hwn, yr wyf yn rhoicroeso calonnog i gyflwyno’r credyd treth ideuluoedd sy’n gweithio gyda’r elfen ogredyd treth am ofal plant sydd ynddo.Mae’n rhoi sylw i’r costau am ofal plant awynebir gan lawer o deuluoedd sydd arincwm isel. Fodd bynnag, mae angen innihefyd ystyried y rhai sy’n gweithio llai nag16 awr yr wythnos, y ceir nifer fawr ohonyntyn f’etholaeth i.

Although over 1.3 million families in Britainwill benefit from the new scheme, those whowork for less than 16 hours a week, thosewho do not work and students will not. Thesafety net is there for some of these people. Iam pleased that the rise in access funds hashelped with the childcare costs of those infurther and higher education, and that newdeal participants are also given somefinancial assistance with childcare. However,it is those who are economically inactivewho suffer most. The means to break intoeconomic activity must be served by theability to afford childcare.

Er y bydd dros 1.3 miliwn o deuluoedd ymMhrydain yn elwa ar y cynllun newydd, nifydd y rhai hynny sy’n gweithio llai nag 16awr yr wythnos, na rhai nad ydynt yngweithio, na myfyrwyr. Mae’r rhwyddiogelwch yno ar gyfer rhai o’r bobl hyn. Yrwyf yn falch bod y cynnydd yn y cronfeyddmynediad wedi helpu gyda chostau gofalplant y rhai mewn addysg bellach ac uwch, abod y rhai sy’n cymryd rhan yn y FargenNewydd hefyd yn derbyn rhywfaint ogymorth ariannol gyda gofal plant. Foddbynnag, y rhai sy’n economaidd anweithgarsy’n dioddef fwyaf. Rhaid i’r modd igyrraedd gweithgaredd economaidd gael eiategu gan y gallu i fforddio gofal plant.

I would like to see—as would many others,including the Select Committee and many ofthose who presented evidence to it—thechildcare tax credit being extended toinformal childcare arrangements. Valleycommunities are strong and close. Familiesand friends often live near to each other. Thataspect of Welsh life should be celebrated,and I am pleased that Gwenda made thatpoint. Traditionally, this informal childcareformed the backbone of children’sdevelopment in industrial south Wales. Yetas the current arrangement stands, those whoprovide what may be a childcare serviceequal to that provided elsewhere will lose outdue to the nature of the childcare tax credit. Iagree with Children in Wales, which states:

Byddwn i—fel llawer un arall, gan gynnwysy Pwyllgor Dethol a llawer o’r rhai agyflwynodd dystiolaeth iddo—yn hoffigweld ymestyn y credyd treth am ofal plant igynnwys trefniadau gofal plant anffurfiol.Mae cymunedau’r Cymoedd yn gryf ac ynglòs. Bydd teuluoedd a ffrindiau’n byw’nagos at ei gilydd yn aml. Dylid mawrygu’ragwedd honno ar fywyd Cymru, ac yr wyf ynfalch bod Gwenda wedi gwneud y pwynthwnnw. Yn draddodiadol, y gofal plantanffurfiol hwn oedd asgwrn cefn datblygiadplant yn ardaloedd diwydiannol de Cymru.Ond fel y mae’r trefniadau ar hyn o bryd,bydd y rhai sy’n darparu gwasanaeth gofalplant a allai fod cystal â’r hyn a ddarperirmewn mannau eraill ar eu colled oherwydd

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natur y credyd treth am ofal plant. Cytunaf âPhlant yng Nghymru, sy’n datgan:

‘the childcare strategy could run the risk ofcreating inequalities if it does not fullyaddress the issues… of ensuring equality ofopportunity for parents living in areas ofdeprivation.’

‘the childcare strategy could run the risk ofcreating inequalities if it does not fullyaddress the issues… of ensuring equality ofopportunity for parents living in areas ofdeprivation.’

I recommend that, after monitoring thescheme, if problems arise, we shouldconsider including informal childcarearrangements under the tax credit schemefurther to alleviate childcare problems. Iaccept the point made by several speakersthat although informal, childcare has to besafe and should be monitored. That isimportant.

Os gwelir ar ôl monitro’r cynllun fodproblemau’n codi, yr wyf yn argymell ydylem ystyried cynnwys trefniadau gofalplant anffurfiol o dan y cynllun credyd trether mwyn lliniaru problemau gofal plantymhellach. Yr wyf yn derbyn y pwynt awnaed gan sawl siaradwr fod rhaid i’r gofalhwn, er ei fod yn anffurfiol, fod yn ddiogelac y dylid ei fonitro. Mae hynny’n bwysig.

As the Welsh Affairs Select Committeereport rightly points out:

Fel y dywedir yn briodol yn adroddiad yPwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig:

‘the working families tax credit alone willnot solve the problem of affordability ofchildcare in the most disadvantagedcommunities.’

‘the working families tax credit alone willnot solve the problem of affordability ofchildcare in the most disadvantagedcommunities.’

It is with that in mind that we must alsowelcome the introduction of the Sure StartInitiative and the New Opportunities Fundmoneys. We must take care to ensure that inValley communities such as the CynonValley, long-term strategic approaches aretaken in funding decisions. Sustainablechildcare initiatives will be produced as aresult.

Gan gofio hynny, rhaid inni groesawucyflwyniad y cynllun Cychwyn Cadarn acarian y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd. Rhaidinni ofalu bod dull gweithredu strategoltymor-hir ynglŷn â phenderfyniadau ariannumewn cymunedau yn y Cymoedd fel CwmCynon.

Those who wish to return to work or entertraining are often the most hampered byunaffordable childcare. As I have said onprevious occasions, we need almost acomplete culture change to ensure that ouremployers and training providers play theirpart in providing affordable, qualitychildcare. I will emphasise this point in thePost-16 Education and Training Committee.Some organisations, such as the Kids’ ClubNetwork in Wales, believe that financial helpshould be available from day one ofemployment as many people feel that theycannot sustain debts before being paid. Theytherefore refuse work. I would like thisexplored further so that we can help those in

Y rhai sydd am ddychwelyd i weithio neu amddechrau hyfforddiant yw’r rhai a rwystrirfwyaf yn aml gan ofal plant na allant eifforddio. Fel y dywedais cyn hyn, mae arnomangen newid llwyr bron yn ein diwylliant isicrhau y bydd ein cyflogwyr a’n darparwyrhyfforddiant yn chwarae eu rhan wrthddarparu gofal plant fforddiadwy o ansawddda. Byddaf yn pwysleisio’r pwynt hwn yn yPwyllgor Addysg a Hyfforddiant Ôl-16. Maerhai cyrff, fel y Rhwydwaith Clybiau Plantyng Nghymru, yn credu y dylai cymorthariannol fod ar gael o’r diwrnod cyntaf mewncyflogaeth gan fod llawer o bobl yn teimlo naallant fynd i ddyled cyn cael eu talu. Fellybyddant yn gwrthod gwaith. Hoffwn weld

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greatest need. ymchwil bellach i hynny fel y gallwn helpu’rrhai sydd â’r angen mwyaf.

4:16 p.m.

In conclusion, I want to echo the words ofchildren in Wales who, in their evidence tothe Select Committee, identified theopportunity for a Welsh solution to Welshproblems in the advent of the Assembly. Thechild must be at the centre of the decisionsand we must address the particular problemsfaced by Welsh parents, rather than mirroringdevelopments in England. We must alsoensure that we cast the net far wider to allowas many people as possible fromdisadvantaged communities to benefit fromfinancial help with childcare. If we can dothat, we are moving in the right direction.

I derfynu, yr wyf am ategu geiriau Plant yngNghymru, yn eu tystiolaeth i’r PwyllgorDethol, a nododd y cyfle i gael ateb Cymreigi broblemau Cymreig gyda dyfodiad yCynulliad. Rhaid i’r plentyn fod ar ganol ypenderfyniadau a rhaid inni roi sylw i’rproblemau arbennig a wynebir gan rieniCymru, yn hytrach nag adlewyrchudatblygiadau yn Lloegr. Rhaid inni sicrhauhefyd ein bod yn taflu’r rhwyd yn ehangachfel y gall cynifer â phosibl o gymunedaudifreintiedig elwa ar y cymorth ariannol gydagofal plant. Os gallwn wneud hynny, byddwnyn symud yn y cyfeiriad iawn.

Geraint Davies: I welcome the opportunityto speak on this important subject. Goodchildcare is vital for the development of ourcommunities, both socially andeconomically. If we want balancedcommunities, we must look after our childrenwell. Children are the main priority, not thecarer, the teacher or even the parent. Thechild must come first. We should consultolder children to see what they findenjoyable and stimulating. Childcare isimportant in developing a child’s social andeducational skills. It means having fun, justas we have fun playing with our computers.Having fun is the best way for children tolearn.

Geraint Davies: Yr wyf yn croesawu’r cyflei siarad ar y pwnc pwysig hwn. Mae gofalplant da yn hanfodol ar gyfer datblygiad eincymunedau, yn gymdeithasol ac yneconomaidd. Os ydym am gael cymunedaucytbwys, rhaid inni ofalu’n dda am ein plant.Plant yw’r flaenoriaeth bennaf, nid ygwarchodwr, yr athro neu’r rhiant hyd ynoed. Rhaid i’r plentyn ddod yn gyntaf. Dylemymgynghori â phlant hŷn i ganfod beth sy’nrhoi boddhad a symbyliad iddynt. Mae gofalplant yn bwysig wrth ddatblygu medraucymdeithasol ac addysgol y plentyn. Mae’ngolygu cael hwyl, yn union fel y byddwn ni’ncael hwyl wrth chwarae â’n cyfrifiaduron.Cael hwyl yw’r ffordd orau i blant ddysgu.

I echo the views expressed by Brian Gibbonsabout deprivation. My constituency is on thewrong side of the divide with regard tochildcare. Childcare in place of parents is notas big an issue where I come from as it is inother areas of Wales because a parent isoften at home due to low economic activity.Playschemes are vital and I make an appealabout this issue. Playschemes areoccasionally held for one week during thesummer holidays but children play all theyear round. We need much more funding forplayschemes. We need to get children awayfrom watching the television to playing andinteracting with other children instead. Thatis how their social skills develop. I am

Yr wyf yn ategu’r farn a fynegwyd gan BrianGibbons am amddifadedd. Mae f’etholaeth iar yr ochr anghywir y clawdd o ran gofalplant. Nid yw gofal plant yn lle rhieni yngymaint o destun trafod yn f’ardal i ag y maemewn rhannau eraill o Gymru oherwyddbydd yna riant gartref mewn llawer achos oganlyniad i weithgaredd economaidd isel.Mae cynlluniau chwarae yn hollbwysig ac yrwyf gwneud apêl ar y mater hwn. Weithiaubydd cynlluniau chwarae’n cael eu cynnalam un wythnos yn ystod gwyliau’r haf ondmae plant yn chwarae drwy’r flwyddyn gron.Mae arnom angen llawer mwy o arian igynlluniau chwarae. Rhaid inni dynnu plantoddi wrth y teledu a’u cael i chwarae a

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concerned about funding as the reportmentions that people get a year’s funding fora scheme and three years if they are lucky.We must have a long-term strategy. Peoplemust invest in the future of our children. Imake a plea for the important kids clubs to beextended throughout the year.

rhyngweithio â phlant eraill yn lle hynny.Dyna sut y bydd eu medrau cymdeithasol yndatblygu. Yr wyf yn bryderus ynghylchariannu oherwydd mae’r adroddiad yn dweudy bydd pobl yn derbyn ariannu am flwyddynar gyfer cynllun ac am dair blynedd os ydyntyn ffodus. Rhaid inni gael strategaeth dymor-hir. Rhaid i bobl fuddsoddi yn nyfodol einplant. Yr wyf yn erfyn am ymestyn y clybiauplant pwysig hyn drwy’r flwyddyn.

Brian Hancock: I did not get the report untilthis morning and have not gone through it indetail. We must remember that we are talkingabout the citizens of tomorrow and must givethem the greatest opportunity. Therefore, wemust invest in our children and makechildcare accessible, affordable, community-based, safe and secure. We must monitor itso that all these elements are achievable andparents get the best deal. Geraint has spokenabout playschemes and there is no point inrepeating what has been said but we must dothe best we can for the citizens of tomorrow.

Brian Hancock: Ni dderbyniais yradroddiad tan fore heddiw ac nid wyf wedimynd drwyddo’n fanwl. Rhaid inni gofio einbod yn sôn am ddinasyddion yfory a rhaidinni roi’r cyfle mwyaf posibl iddynt. Felly,rhaid inni fuddsoddi yn ein plant a gwneudgofal plant yn hygyrch, yn fforddiadwy, ynlleol yn y gymuned, ac yn ddiogel. Rhaid inniei fonitro er mwyn cyflawni’r holl elfennauhyn a sicrhau’r fargen orau i rieni. MaeGeraint wedi sôn am gynlluniau chwarae acnid oes diben ailadrodd yr hyn a ddywedwydond rhaid inni wneud y gorau y gallwn drosddinasyddion y dyfodol.

Rosemary Butler: Alun Michael tried to dosomething a little different in Wales when heset up the Cabinet posts. He gave me theresponsibility of looking after children’sissues across the board. As has been said thisafternoon, children’s issues are encompassedin everything: education, economicdevelopment, social services, health,housing, sports and the arts. It is vital thatchildren are taken into account in ourpolicies. As Jane mentioned earlier, I amresponsible for ensuring the delivery of thisholistic approach to children.

Rosemary Butler: Fe geisiodd AlunMichael wneud rhywbeth braidd yn wahanolyng Nghymru pan sefydlodd y swyddi yn yCabinet. Rhoddodd gyfrifoldeb i mi drosofalu am faterion plant ym mhob maes. Fel ydywedwyd brynhawn heddiw, mae materionplant yn gynwysiedig ym mhob dim: addysg,datblygu economaidd, gwasanaethaucymdeithasol, iechyd, tai, chwaraeon a’rcelfyddydau. Mae’n hollbwysig y cymerirplant i ystyriaeth yn ein polisïau. Fel ydywedodd Jane yn gynharach, fynghyfrifoldeb i yw cyflawni’r dullgweithredu cyfannol hwn ynghylch plant.

Whether one agrees with this report or not, ithas generated an excellent debate thisafternoon. I am not going to try to address allof the details individually but will give ageneral overview because I thought thepoints made were excellent. The items raisedwill be reviewed by all AssemblyCommittees, from Economic Developmentunder Rhodri, to Health under Jane.

Pa un a yw rhywun yn cytuno â’r adroddiadai peidio, mae wedi creu dadl ragorolbrynhawn heddiw. Nid wyf am geisio ymdrinâ’r holl fanylion yn unigol ond fe roddafuwcholwg cyffredinol oherwydd yr oeddwnyn credu bod y pwyntiau a wnaed yn rhairhagorol. Fe adolygir yr eitemau a godwydgan holl Bwyllgorau’r Cynulliad, oDdatblygu Economaidd o dan Rhodri, iIechyd o dan Jane.

There was some criticism of the strategy but Yr oedd rhywfaint o feirniadaeth ar y

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it is not set in stone and we do not want it tobe. It will continue to evolve in the light ofexperience. The Welsh Office, partnershipsand others have already done good work. Weneed to build on that and give careful thoughtto how best the strategy might develop, sothat it meets the needs of the parents andchildren of Wales. We need to ensure thatchildcare is affordable, high quality andaccessible.

strategaeth ond nid yw i fod yn ddigyfnewidac nid ydym am iddi fod felly. Bydd ynparhau i ddatblygu yng ngoleuni profiad.Mae’r Swyddfa Gymreig, y partneriaethau aceraill eisoes wedi gwneud gwaith da. Maeangen inni adeiladu ar sail hynny a rhoiystyriaeth ofalus i’r ffordd orau y gallai’rstrategaeth ddatblygu, fel ei bod yn atebanghenion rhieni a phlant Cymru. Rhaid innisicrhau bod gofal plant yn fforddiadwy, oansawdd uchel ac yn hygyrch.

A number of Members have made the pointthat many families might wish to look aftertheir own children. We have an obligation toensure that families can balanceresponsibilities at home, work and educationor training. The availability of good qualityprovision will provide people with a choice.Choice is important.

Mae sawl Aelod wedi gwneud y pwynt bodllawer o deuluoedd yn dymuno gofalu am euplant eu hunain. Mae rheidrwydd arnom isicrhau y bydd teuluoedd yn gallu cydbwysoeu cyfrifoldebau yn y cartref, yn y gwaith acmewn addysg neu hyfforddiant. Drwysicrhau bod darpariaeth o ansawdd da ar gael,bydd gan bobl ddewis. Mae dewis yn bwysig.

Everybody was impressed by Gwenda’simpassioned contribution. The Assembly willgive early consideration to the remit, role andfunctions of a children’s commissioner. Apaper is on the agenda and the Health andSocial Services Committee will meettomorrow. I have spoken with AndrewDavies, the Business Secretary and he hasassured me that he will try to ensure that theUnited Nations charter on children’s rightswill be discussed by the Assembly as soon aspossible.

Mae cyfraniad angerddol Gwenda wedigwneud argraff ar bawb. Bydd y Cynulliadyn rhoi ystyriaeth fuan i gylch gorchwyl, rôla swyddogaethau comisiynydd plant. Maedogfen ar yr agenda a bydd y PwyllgorIechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yncyfarfod yfory. Yr wyf wedi siarad agAndrew Davies, y Trefnydd, ac mae wedirhoi sicrwydd i mi y bydd yn ceisio sicrhautrafodaeth gan y Cynulliad ar siarter yCenhedloedd Unedig ar hawliau plant cyngynted ag y bo modd.

We can achieve more and do better withincreased funding. Nobody disputes that.However, we must be realistic about howmuch funding is available and ensure that itis put to best use. The Assembly will have toconsider funding for the children’s strategyin the light of its other priorities. The FirstSecretary announced funding of £2.4 millionfor a childcare strategy in Wales in 1999-2000. Of this, £1.4 million will be distributedthrough local authorities to the 22 early yearsdevelopment and childcare partnerships, and£900,000 will go to the training andenterprise councils to provide infrastructuresupport for out-of-school childcare provisionthat will be eligible for funding from theNew Opportunities Fund. In addition,£150,000 has been allocated to continue theunder-fives initiative this year. There is also

Gallwn gyflawni mwy a gwneud yn well ogael mwy o gyllid. Nid oes neb yn dadlauynghylch hynny. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni fodyn realistig ynghylch maint yr arian sydd argael a sicrhau’r defnydd gorau iddo. Byddraid i’r Cynulliad ystyried ariannu’rstrategaeth plant yng ngoleuni eiflaenoriaethau eraill. Cyhoeddodd y PrifYsgrifennydd gyllid o £2.4 miliwn ar gyferstrategaeth gofal plant yng Nghymru yn1999-2000. O hynny, fe ddosbarthir £1.4miliwn drwy awdurdodau lleol i’r 22 obartneriaethau datblygu’r blynyddoeddcynnar a gofal plant, a bydd £900,000 ynmynd i’r cynghorau hyfforddi a menter iddarparu cefnogaeth i isadeiledd ar gyferdarpariaeth o ofal plant y tu allan i’r ysgol afydd yn gymwys i dderbyn arian o’r GronfaCyfleoedd Newydd. Ar ben hynny,

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funding available from the NewOpportunities Fund: £14.3 million between1999 and 2003. We must ensure that Walestakes full advantage of this money.Sustainability and affordability are importantissues that the Assembly will need toaddress. The New Opportunities Fund hasthe discretion to fund for longer than oneyear in areas of particular disadvantage. Theworking families tax credit to whichChristine referred, will help working familieswith childcare costs. Childcare will be moreaffordable for a huge section of thepopulation. I am confident that theopportunities to be gained from the structuralfund programmes will be realised.

dyrannwyd £150,000 i barhau â’r cynllun iblant dan 5 oed eleni. Mae cyllid ar gaelhefyd o’r Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd: £14.3miliwn rhwng 1999 a 2003. Rhaid innisicrhau bod Cymru’n manteisio i’r eithaf aryr arian hwn. Mae cynaliadwyedd afforddiadwyedd yn faterion pwysig y byddraid i’r Cynulliad ymdrin â hwy. Maerhyddid gan y Gronfa Cyfleoedd Newydd iariannu am gyfnod hwy na blwyddyn mewnardaloedd sydd dan anfantais arbennig. Byddy credyd treth i deuluoedd sy’n gweithio, ycyfeiriodd Christine ato, yn helpu teuluoeddsy’n gweithio gyda chostau gofal plant. Byddgofal plant yn fwy fforddiadwy i gyfranhelaeth iawn o’r boblogaeth. Yr wyf ynhyderus y bydd y cyfleoedd sydd i’w caeldrwy raglenni’r cronfeydd strwythurol yncael eu gwireddu.

The European Task Force has taken strongheed of the representations it has received onthe importance of enhanced childcare. I amaware that specific provision is being madein all programme activities for childcareprovision. The programme provides a majoropportunity for childcare to become widelyavailable and regarded as an essentialelement of any economic development ortraining initiative. However, it must remainintegrated within those wider developmentsand contribute to their success. Helen Maryraised several interesting issues, one inparticular about the questionnaire. You werethe only one Helen, who returned thequestionnaire and you only said that youmight be interested. I stand to be correctedon that.

Mae’r Gweithlu Ewropeaidd wedi cymrydsylw mawr o’r sylwadau a gyflwynwyd iddoar bwysigrwydd gofal plant gwell. Yr wyf ynymwybodol bod darpariaeth benodol yn caelei gwneud yn holl weithgareddau’r rhaglenar gyfer darparu gofal plant. Mae’r rhaglenyn rhoi cyfle mawr i sicrhau bod gofal plantar gael ar raddfa eang a’i fod yn cael eiystyried yn elfen hanfodol mewn unrhywgynllun datblygu economaidd neu hyfforddi.Fodd bynnag, rhaid iddo aros yn rhanannatod o’r datblygiadau ehangach hynny achyfrannu at eu llwyddiant. Codwyd sawlmater diddorol gan Helen Mary, un ohonyntyn ymwneud yn arbennig â’r holiadur. Chi,Helen, oedd yr unig un a ddychwelodd yrholiadur a chi oedd yr unig un a ddywedoddfod gennych ddiddordeb. Yr wyf yn barod igael fy nghywiro ar hynny.

Helen Mary Jones: The IT people told methat they only had six responses and two ofthose did not get elected. I suggested that wemight need to ask the question again.

Helen Mary Jones: Fe ddywedodd y boblTG wrthyf nad oeddent ond wedi derbynchwe ateb a bod dau o’r rhai a atebodd hebeu hethol. Awgrymais ei bod yn bosibl ybyddai angen inni ofyn y cwestiwn eto.

Rosemary Butler: I was told that it was onlyyou. I understand that a new questionnairewill be distributed in the near future. Mattershave moved on slightly because we are nottalking only about creche facilities, but aboutday-care for visitors, which is important. Ibelieve that there are baby-changing facilities

Rosemary Butler: Fe ddywedwyd wrthyfmai chi oedd yr unig un. Yr wyf yn deall ybydd holiadur newydd yn cael ei ddosbarthucyn hir. Mae pethau wedi symud ymlaen rywychydig ond nid ydym yn sôn amgyfleusterau meithrinfa yn unig, ond am ofaldydd i ymwelwyr, sydd yn bwysig. Yr wyf

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in the ladies’ and gentlemen’s toilets on theground floor. Again, I stand to be correctedbecause I have not been into the gents—[Interruption.] Yes, there are equalopportunities.

yn credu bod cyfleusterau newid clytiaubabanod yn nhoiledau’r dynion a’r merchedar y llawr gwaelod. Unwaith eto, yr wyf ynbarod i gael fy nghywiro oherwydd ni fûm ynnhoiledau’r dynion—[Torri ar draws.] Oes,mae yna gyfle cyfartal.

4:26 p.m.

It is very important that the new building isfamily friendly. I know that several peopleare considering childcare provision, not onlychildcare for visitors and possible crechefacilities, but there must be places whereschool children can relax and enjoythemselves, as well as take seriously theeducation reasons for their presence. That isvery important. I would personally like to seea performance space outside the building sothat more and more people could visit, andthus we, as well as them, could enjoy theday.

Mae’n bwysig iawn bod yr adeilad newyddyn addas i deuluoedd. Fe wn fod nifer o boblyn ystyried darpariaeth gofal plant, nid ynunig gofal plant i ymwelwyr a chyfleusterau ifeithrinfa o bosibl, ond rhaid cael mannau lley gall plant ysgol ymlacio a mwynhau, ynogystal â bod o ddifrif ynghylch y rhesymauaddysgol dros fod yn bresennol yma. Maehynny’n bwysig iawn. Yn bersonol, hoffwnweld man perfformio y tu allan i’r adeilad fely gallai mwy a mwy ymweld, ac fel y gallemni, a hwythau, fwynhau’r diwrnod.

The report has rightly highlighted the needfor the review of the form of early-yearseducation. A number of Members mentionedthat this afternoon. The fact that the Under-16 Education Committee has already begunwork and instigated a review on this issue isevidence of how seriously we take the matterand how urgently we believe that we mustprogress. We must resolve something withinthe year.

Mae’r adroddiad wedi tynnu sylw yn briodolat yr angen i adolygu ffurf addysg yn yblynyddoedd cynnar. Soniodd nifer oAelodau am hynny brynhawn heddiw. Mae’rffaith bod y Pwyllgor Addysg Cyn-16 eisoeswedi dechrau ar ei waith ac wedi dechrauadolygiad o’r mater hwn yn brawf o’nhymagwedd ddifrifol at y mater a’r pwys aroddwn ar symud ymlaen yn gyflym. Rhaidinni benderfynu rhywbeth o fewn yflwyddyn.

Mike German made several points, but inresponse to the concerns about the expansionof early education in the maintained sector, Itell him that the Government announceddirect financial support for playgroups andan independent review of how they candevelop their role in helping to expand early-years education and childcare. We willconsider the findings of this review whenthey are made available in the autumn. It isimportant that we consider the voluntarysector, especially playgroups, and CynogDafis’ point on the Welsh-medium issue.

Gwnaeth Mike German sawl pwynt, ondmewn ymateb i’r pryderon ynghylch ehanguaddysg gynnar yn y sector gwladol, yr wyf yndweud wrtho fod y Llywodraeth wedicyhoeddi cymorth ariannol uniongyrchol igrwpiau chwarae ac adolygiad annibynnolo’r modd y gallant ddatblygu eu rôl wrthhelpu i ehangu addysg a gofal plant yn yblynyddoedd cynnar. Byddwn yn ystyriedcasgliadau’r adolygiad hwn pan fyddant argael yn yr hydref. Mae’n bwysig inniystyried y sector gwirfoddol, yn enwediggrwpiau chwarae, a phwynt Cynog Dafis arfater y Gymraeg fel cyfrwng.

There are a whole raft of matters that couldbe mentioned this afternoon, but many ofthem should be raised in the Committees,where they will obviously have to be debated

Mae clwstwr mawr o faterion y gellid eucrybwyll brynhawn heddiw, ond dylai llawerohonynt gael eu codi yn y Pwyllgorau, lle ybydd raid eu trafod yn hwy, wrth reswm.

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at greater length. It is appropriate that weensure that the relevant Committees dealwith these matters as soon as possible.

Mae’n briodol inni sicrhau bod y Pwyllgorauperthnasol yn delio â’r materion hyn cyngynted ag y bo modd.

I thank everyone for a constructive debatethis afternoon. I have no doubt that the rolethat I have been given—Children’s Ministeris not quite the right term—of looking afterchildren generally, will be made much easierby a total commitment from everybody heretoday and all parties. We have had anexcellent debate, and I look forward toattending all the Committee meetings whenthe issues that we have discussed are raised.

Diolchaf i bawb am y ddadl adeiladolbrynhawn heddiw. Nid oes amheuaethgennyf y bydd y rôl a roddwyd i mi—nidGweinidog Plant yw’r term iawn yn hollol—o ofalu am blant yn gyffredinol, yn cael eihwyluso’n fawr drwy ymrwymiad llwyr ganbawb yma heddiw a’r holl bleidiau. Cawsomddadl ragorol, ac edrychaf ymlaen at fynychuholl gyfarfodydd y Pwyllgorau pryd y codir ymaterion a drafodwyd gennym.

Michael German: By way of explanation,our amendment is intended to be inserted inthe middle of the motion and, therefore, thefinal paragraph of the motion, whichproposes remitting the report to Committees,would be retained.

Michael German: Er mwyn rhoi eglurhad, ybwriad yw cynnwys ein gwelliant yngnghanol y cynnig ac, felly, bydd paragraffolaf y cynnig, sydd â’r bwriad o gyfeirio’radroddiad i’r Pwyllgorau, yn cael ei gadw.

The Presiding Officer: We had noticed that.We shall now take a vote on the amendmentto the motion.

Y Llywydd: Yr oeddem wedi sylwi arhynny. Yn awr fe gymerwn bleidlais ar ygwelliant i’r cynnig.

A vote was held by show of hands.Amendment accepted.

Cynhaliwyd pleidlais drwy ddangos dwylo.Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.

The Presiding Officer: We shall now take avote on the amended motion.

Y Llywydd: Yn awr fe gymerwn bleidlais ary cynnig gyda’r gwelliant.

A vote was held by show of hands.Amended motion adopted

Cynhaliwyd pleidlais drwy ddangos dwylo.Derbyniwyd y cynnig gyda’r gwelliant.

Dadl Fer ar Brofion Llygaid am DdimShort Debate on Free Eye Tests

Jenny Randerson: Despite the comments ofIeuan Wyn Jones this afternoon and ourearlier discussion, I make no apology for thetopic that I have selected this week. This slotprovides a valuable opportunity to raiseimportant, but relatively detailed issues,which would otherwise not get an airing inour crowded agenda. Last week, we disposedof social exclusion in a couple of hours; thisafternoon, we disposed of childcare in anhour and a half. We are not likely to getdown to detailed issues like free eye testsvery often. Of course, I shall allowrepresentatives of other parties to speak atthe end of my remarks if they wish to do so

Jenny Randerson: Er gwaethaf sylwadauIeuan Wyn Jones brynhawn heddiw a’rdrafodaeth a gawsom yn gynharach, nid wyfyn ymddiheuro am y pwnc a ddewisais yrwythnos hon. Mae’r rhicyn amser hwn ynrhoi cyfle pwysig i godi materion pwysig,ond eithaf manwl na fyddent fel arall yn caeleu gwyntyllu yn ein hagenda prysur. Yrwythnos diwethaf, cawsom wared âdieithrwch cymdeithasol mewn awr neuddwy; brynhawn heddiw, cawsom wared âgofal plant mewn awr a hanner. Nid ydym yndebygol o roi sylw i faterion manwl felprofion llygaid am ddim yn aml iawn. Wrthgwrs, byddaf yn caniatáu i gynrychiolwyr

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because I do not plan to take the whole of myallotted time.

pleidiau eraill siarad ar ddiwedd fy sylwadauos dymunant wneud hynny oherwydd nidwyf yn bwriadu defnyddio’r cwbl o’r amser addyrannwyd i mi.

We all know that public spending per headon health is higher in Wales than in England.

Fe wyddom oll fod gwariant y pen ar iechydyn uwch yng Nghymru nag yn Lloegr.

Possibly the most intractable problem wewill face as an Assembly is the spirallinghealth budget, with health authorities such asDyfed Powys and Bro Taf , which is in myconstituency in Cardiff, struggling to copewith demand, while Wales suffers from moreill health than England.

Efallai mai’r broblem fwyaf annatrys awynebwn fel Cynulliad yw’r cynnyddgraddol yn y gyllideb iechyd, gydagawdurdodau iechyd fel Dyfed Powys a BroTaf, sydd yn f’etholaeth i yng Nghaerdydd,yn ei chael yn anodd i ymdopi â’r galw, trabydd Cymru’n dioddef mwy o iechyd gwaelna Lloegr.

We spend more, without tackling theproblem at source.

Byddwn yn gwario mwy, heb fynd i’r afaelâ’r broblem sylfaenol.

We need to start turning our health serviceround, so that it ceases to be an ill-healthservice and places much more emphasis onpreventing ill health and promoting goodhealth. To do that, we have to change notonly public attitudes, but the funding andstructure of the national health service.

Mae angen inni ddechrau troi’n gwasanaethiechyd yn ei gylch, fel ei fod yn peidio â bodyn wasanaeth afiechyd ac yn rhoi mwy obwyslais ar atal afiechyd a hybu iechyd da. Iwneud hynny, rhaid inni newid agweddaumeddwl y cyhoedd, a hefyd ariannu astrwythur y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol.

The motion singles out eye tests as a simple,effective and relatively inexpensive way ofdeveloping preventative medicine in Wales.In 1988-89, 733,000 eye tests wereundertaken on the NHS in Wales. Last year,it was only 477,000—a fall of more than athird in 10 years. Why is that the case whenthe demand for everything else in the healthservice is increasing? The simple answer isthat, from 1 April 1989, free eye tests wererestricted to certain groups of people. Thatnews was greeted by protests, not least fromthe Labour Party. In that year, the number ofeye tests fell from 733,000 to 292,000. Thenumber of eye tests that are undertaken eachyear has increased only gradually from thattime. That massive fall is eloquent testimonyto the deterrent effect of charges.

Mae’r cynnig yn dethol profion llygaid felmodd syml, effeithiol a chymharol rad oddatblygu meddygaeth ataliol yng Nghymru.Yn 1988-89, ymgymerwyd â 733,000 obrofion llygaid o dan yr NHS yng Nghymru.Llynedd, nid oedd ond 477,000—gostyngiado fwy nag un rhan o dair mewn 10 mlynedd.Pam y mae hyn yn digwydd pan fo’r galw ambopeth arall yn y gwasanaeth iechyd yncynyddu? Yr ateb syml yw bod profionllygaid am ddim wedi eu cyfyngu, o 1 Ebrill1989, i rai grwpiau o bobl. Cafwydprotestiadau yn erbyn y newydd hwnnw, nidlleiaf gan y Blaid Lafur. Y flwyddyn honno,bu gostyngiad yn nifer y profion llygaid o733,000 i 292,000. Ni chafwyd ond cynnyddgraddol yn nifer y profion llygaid agyflawnwyd ym mhob blwyddyn wedihynny. Mae’r gostyngiad enfawr hwnnw yndystiolaeth lafar iawn i effaith ataliol coditaliadau.

You could say that there are now so manygroups that do not have to pay—for example,all children under 16, students in full-time

Fe allech ddweud bod cymaint o grwpiau nadoes raid iddynt dalu—er enghraifft, pobplentyn o dan 16 oed, myfyrwyr mewn

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education who are under 19, people onjobseekers’ allowance and those on incomesupport—that there is not much point inworrying about the others. I congratulate theGovernment on at least restoring on 1 Aprilfree eye tests for people over 60. That was animportant step, but I wish that theGovernment had gone further.

addysg lawn-amser o dan 19 oed, pobl sy’nderbyn lwfans chwiliwr swydd a rhai sy’nderbyn cymorth incwm—fel nad oes dibenymboeni am y lleill. Llongyfarchaf yLlywodraeth am o leiaf adfer profion llygaidam ddim i rai dros 60 oed ar 1 Ebrill. Yroedd hynny’n gam pwysig, ond byddai’n ddagennyf pe bai’r Llywodraeth wedi myndymhellach.

So far, the message about free eye tests doesnot seem to have got through. The firstcouple of months of free eye tests forpensioners have not led to the rush to theoptician—at least not in Cardiff—that mighthave been expected. At least, efforts shouldbe made to publicise free eye tests forpensioners better. However, the root of theproblem is that people are confused abouttheir entitlements. Confusion discouragesparticipation.

Nid yw’n ymddangos, hyd yn hyn, fod yneges am brofion llygaid am ddim wedicyrraedd y nod. Nid yw’r ddau fis cyntaf obrofion llygaid am ddim i bensiynwyr wediarwain at y rhuthr am yr optegydd—yngNghaerdydd o leiaf—y gallesid ei ddisgwyl.Fe ddylid o leiaf wneud ymdrech i roicyhoeddusrwydd gwell i brofion llygaid amddim i bensiynwyr. Fodd bynnag, gwraidd ybroblem yw bod pobl yn teimlo’n ddryslydynghylch eu hawliau. Mae dryswch ynanogaeth i beidio â chymryd rhan.

It has always surprised me that while weaccept preventative dentistry, with regularcheck-ups, we do not have the same approachto opticians. The difficulties of obtainingnational health service dental care havereceived far more publicity than free eyetests and visits to the optician. We do notvisit the optician until we can no longer seethe words on the page in front of us. I saythat as someone who is reading from printthat is slightly larger than normal, whichenables me to read as I speak.

Mae’n peri syndod imi erioed, er ein bod ynderbyn deintyddiaeth ataliol, gyda gwiriadaurheolaidd, nad ydym yn ymwneud yn yr unmodd ag optegwyr. Rhoddwyd llawer mwy ogyhoeddusrwydd i’r trafferthion a geir wrthgeisio cael gofal deintyddol o dan ygwasanaeth iechyd gwladol nag i brofionllygaid am ddim ac ymweliadau i’r optegydd.Ni fyddwn yn mynd at yr optegydd hyd nesbyddwn yn methu â gweld y geiriau ar ytudalen o’n blaen. Fe ddywedaf hynny felrhywun sydd yn darllen print sydd ychydigmwy na’r arfer, sy’n fy ngalluogi i ddarllenwrth imi siarad.

An eye test is recommended every two years.However, one in 10 adults have never had aneye test, and one in five children are believedto have undetected visual problems.

Argymhellir cymryd prawf llygaid bob dwyflynedd. Fodd bynnag, mae un ym mhob 10 ooedolion heb gael prawf llygaid erioed, achredir bod problemau golwg heb eu canfodgan un plentyn ym mhob pump.

Not only poor vision, but more seriousproblems, such as glaucoma and cataracts,which cause long-term damage, areundetected. Eye examinations are alsoimportant for our general health, and canreveal signs of diabetes and hypertension.

Yn ogystal â golwg gwael, bydd problemaumwy difrifol, fel glawcoma a chataractau,sy’n peri niwed tymor-hir, heb eu canfod.Mae archwiliadau o’r llygaid hefyd ynbwysig i’n hiechyd cyffredinol, a gallantddangos arwyddion o’r clefyd siwgwr aphwysedd gwaed uchel.

Let us consider glaucoma. It affects about 2 Gadewch inni ystyried glawcoma. Mae’n

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per cent of the population and its onset ismost likely to occur when people are in their40s. Therefore, unless you receive some kindof benefit, or belong to a family that isalready affected by glaucoma—and thusreceive free tests—you would not be eligiblefor free eye tests at the age when it is mostimportant to have them. Glaucoma is agradual condition, which you do not notice atfirst. It is progressive and incurable andnarrows the field of vision. Once lost, thatcannot be regained. However, once detected,it can be stabilised. The earlier it is detected,the better, because it can be treatedeffectively.

effeithio ar oddeutu 2 y cant o’r boblogaethac mae’n fwyaf tebygol o ddechrau pan fyddpobl yn eu 40au. Felly, os nad ydych ynderbyn rhyw fath o fudd-dal, neu’n perthyn ideulu sydd eisoes wedi ei effeithio ganglawcoma—ac felly’n derbyn profion llygaidam ddim—ni fyddai hawl gennych i dderbynprofion llygaid am ddim yn yr oed pryd ymae’n bwysicaf eu cael. Mae glawcoma yngyflwr graddol, na fyddwch yn sylwi arno iddechrau. Mae’n raddol ac yn anwelladwy acmae’n culhau’r maes gwelediad. Ar ôl eigolli, ni ellir ei adfer. Fodd bynnag, ar ôl eiddarganfod, fe ellir ei sefydlogi. Gorau pogyntaf y caiff ei ddarganfod, oherwydd gellirei drin yn effeithiol.

4:36 p.m.

There are a number of reasons why people donot bother to go to the opticians—fear, vanityabout wearing glasses and so on. However,an important reason deterring people fromhaving eye tests is the charge, which isbetween £13 and £17. Yesterday, there was agreat deal of news about the BMA’ssuggestion of paying £10 to visit the doctor.There was, quite rightly, massive oppositionto that, as a charge would deter people whoneed to visit their GP. It would be difficult orimpossible for many people to find that kindof money. Even those on restricted incomeswho do not receive benefits would find thatdifficult to pay. The argument put byopponents of this plan in the BMA, themedia and so on, was that illnesses would beneglected until they became serious. Thesame argument applies to eye tests.

Mae nifer o resymau pam na fydd pobl yntrafferthu mynd at yr optegydd—ofn,amharodrwydd i wisgo sbectol oherwyddbalchder ac yn y blaen. Fodd bynnag, unrheswm pwysig sy’n atal pobl rhag caelprofion llygaid yw’r tâl a godir, sydd rhwng£13 a £17. Ddoe, yr oedd llawer o sôn yn ynewyddion am awgrym y BMA i godi £10am ymweliad â’r meddyg. Yr oeddgwrthwynebiad enfawr i hynny, yn briodoliawn, oherwydd y byddai tâl yn atal pobl ymae arnynt angen ymweld â’u meddyg teulu.Byddai’n anodd neu’n amhosibl i lawer obobl gael hyd i arian o’r fath. Byddai hyd ynoed rhai ar incwm bach, nad ydynt yn derbynbudd-daliadau, yn ei chael yn anodd taluhynny. Y ddadl a gyflwynir gan y rhai sy’ngwrthwynebu’r cynllun hwn yn y BMA, ycyfryngau ac yn y blaen, yw y byddaiafiechydon yn cael eu hesgeuluso nesdatblygu’n rhai difrifol. Mae’r un ddadl ynberthnasol i brofion llygaid.

The constructive way forward is to abolishthe charges and voice a loud and clearmessage that all eye tests are free. In an idealworld, I would like to go further and discussfree dental checks as well, but I thought oneproposal was enough for this afternoon. Afterall, we have free cervical smear tests in thefight against cancer, and we support theprovision of free family planning guidance.There are many aspects of preventive healthcare that we support. Illnesses like glaucoma,diabetes, hypertension and cataracts absorb

Y ffordd adeiladol ymlaen yw dileu’rtaliadau a datgan neges yn uchel ac yn eglurbod pob prawf llygaid am ddim. Mewn byddelfrydol, hoffwn fynd ymhellach a thrafodgwiriadau deintyddol am ddim hefyd, ondteimlwn fod un cynnig yn ddigon i’rprynhawn hwn. Wedi’r cyfan, yr ydym yncael profion rhwbiad o’r groth am ddim yn yfrwydr yn erbyn canser, ac yr ydym yncefnogi darparu arweiniad cynllunio teulu amddim. Mae llawer agwedd ar ofal iechydataliol y byddwn yn eu cefnogi. Mae

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national health service funds and could bedealt with, in part, by the provision of freeservices as preventive measures in the sameway as the other services I mentioned.

afiechydon fel glawcoma, clefyd siwgwr,pwysedd gwaed uchel a chataractau’n llyncucyllid y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol a gelliddelio â hwy, yn rhannol, drwy ddarparugwasanaethau am ddim fel mesurau ataliol ynyr un modd â’r gwasanaethau eraill agrybwyllais.

As part of the overall health budget forWales, the amount concerned is relativelysmall. Last year 477,000 eye tests in Walescost £6.7 million. There are no figures for thenumber of eye tests carried out privately inWales, but there is an annual survey ofopticians’ workload in Britain, which showsthat 50 per cent of eye tests are carried out onthe national health service. That number isexpected to increase to 60 per cent now thatpeople over 60 are eligible. It is possible toestimate that free eye tests may not quitedouble the amount discussed. We should notbe frightened to take a separate route fromEngland. If we are, what is the point ofdevolution and why are we here? There aremany ways to ensure that there is no bigtourist trade in Wales in visits to the opticianfrom England.

O’i ystyried fel rhan o’r gyllideb iechydgyffredinol i Gymru, mae’r swm dan sylw yngymharol fach. Cost 477,000 o brofionllygaid yng Nghymru llynedd oedd £6.7miliwn. Nid oes ffigurau am y nifer o brofionllygaid a gyflawnwyd yn breifat yngNghymru, ond fe geir arolwg blynyddol olwyth gwaith optegwyr ym Mhrydain, sy’ndangos bod 50 y cant o’r profion llygaid yncael eu cyflawni o dan y gwasanaeth iechydgwladol. Disgwylir i’r nifer hwnnw godi i 60y cant gan fod pobl dros 60 oed bellach yngymwys. Gellir amcangyfrif na fydd profionllygaid am ddim lawn cymaint â dwywaith ynifer a drafodwyd. Ni ddylem ofni dilynllwybr gwahanol i’r un yn Lloegr. Os oesarnom ofn, beth yw diben datganoli a phamyr ydym yma? Mae llawer ffordd i sicrhau nafydd masnach dwristaidd fawr yng Nghymruoherwydd ymweliadau â’r optegydd o Loegr.

I urge you to support this motion. It followson directly from last weeks’ discussion onsocial exclusion. That is not always causedby low income or poor education, it is alsocaused by poor health, eyesight and hearing.They are all part of the social exclusionpicture. We need to signal that we are takinga fresh view of health in Wales and thatprevention is better than cure. I believe thatmoney spent in this way will be well spent. Ibeg you to support the motion.

Yr wyf yn eich cymell i gefnogi’r cynnighwn. Mae’n dilyn yn uniongyrchol o’rdrafodaeth yr wythnos diwethaf arddieithrwch cymdeithasol. Nid yw hynnywedi ei achosi bob amser gan incwm isel neuaddysg wael; fe’i hachosir hefyd gan iechyd,golwg a chlyw gwael. Maent oll yn rhan o’rdarlun o ddieithrwch cymdeithasol. Maeangen inni ddangos ein bod yn cymryd golwgnewydd ar iechyd yng Nghymru a bod atal ynwell na gwella. Credaf y bydd arian a werirfel hyn wedi ei wario’n ddoeth. Apeliafarnoch i gefnogi’r cynnig.

David Lloyd: Diolch i Jenny am ddatganiadda iawn. Yn naturiol, yr ydym yn cytuno ganty cant ag egwyddor profion llygaid am ddim.Pe bai amser yn caniatáu, byddwn yn myndyn emosiynol, yn sgîl fy mhrofiad felmeddyg, ynghylch yr anawsterau y mae poblyn eu hwynebu a’r holl glefydau erchyll syddyn bodoli, megis glawcoma sy’n gallugwneud pobl yn dall, pwysau gwaed uchel achlefyd siwgr. Ni ddylem ddibrisio

David Lloyd: Thank you to Jenny for a verygood statement. Naturally, we agree 100 percent with the principle of free eye tests. Iftime allowed, I would become emotional,following my experiences as a GP, with thedifficulties people face and the dreadfuldiseases that exist, such as glaucoma, whichcan blind, hypertension and diabetes. Wecannot underestimate the seriousness of thesediseases. Calls for free eye tests have

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difrifoldeb y clefydau hyn. Mae galwadau ambrofion llygaid am ddim wedi ymddangosmewn sawl maniffesto gan Blaid Cymru drosy blynyddoedd.

appeared in a number of Plaid Cymrumanifestos over the years.

Fel yr awgrymodd Ieuan eisoes, mae gennymbroblem drefnyddol. Mae Jenny wedi caelamser i amlinellu ei safiad a chytunaf â’rsafiad hwnnw. Munud yn unig sydd gennym,fel Aelodau o’r Wrthblaid, i fod yr un moremosiynol ac i gyfrannu at ddadl bolisibwysig, sydd hefyd yn mynd i glymu’rCynulliad hwn i oblygiadau ariannol rhwng£5 a £10 miliwn. Felly, mae angen trafodaethagored, eang ynghylch blaenoriaethau eraillyn y maes iechyd. Ychydig iawn o arian syddgennym i’w wario. Mae gwario arian ar ymater hwn yn golygu nad oes gennym ariani’w wario mewn meysydd eraill. Mae angentrafodaeth eang ar holl oblygiadau iechyd yny Pwyllgor Iechyd a GwasanaethauCymdeithasol.

As Ieuan suggested, our problem is anorganisational one. Jenny had time to outlineher viewpoint and I agree with it. However,as Opposition Members, we only have aminute to be equally emotional andcontribute to a serious policy debate, whichwill tie this Assembly to financial obligationsof between £5 and £10 million. We thereforeneed an open and extensive discussion onother health priorities. We have a limitedamount of money to spend. Spending on thismatter means that we have no money tospend on other fields. We need an extensivediscussion on all health implications in theCommittee for Health and Social Services.

Gofynnaf i Jane Hutt roi’r pwnc sylweddolhwn gerbron y Pwyllgor fel y bydd pob plaidyn gallu cymryd rhan mewn trafodaeth lawerehangach a thecach. Yn y cyfasmer, byddPlaid Cymru yn atal ei phleidlais, gan nad ywhon yn ffordd i greu polisi yn y Cynulliad.Er ein bod yn cytuno â’r polisi, fe ddylai fodtrafodaeth sylweddol a theg i ystyried eioblygiadau.

I ask Jane Hutt to put this substantial topicbefore the Committee so that every party cantake part in an extensive and fair discussion.In the meantime, Plaid Cymru will abstain,because this is not the way to create policy inthe Assembly. Although we agree with thepolicy, there should be a substantial and fairdiscussion to consider its implications.

David Melding: Whenever I say anythingvaguely heterodox, I am accused of desiringthe Labour whip, if that is not too titillating away of putting it.

David Melding: Pryd bynnag y byddaf yndweud unrhyw beth sydd fymryn ynanuniongred, fe gaf fy nghyhuddo oddymuno derbyn chwip Llafur, os nad ywhynny’n ddweud rhy ogleisiol.

We will abstain on this issue, although theneed for preventive health measures is nowwell appreciated. We place appropriateemphasis on this issue. Promoting well-beingis also a driving force of health policy. Someof the figures quoted are worthy of furtherconsideration. There are resourceimplications in this issue and we, therefore,need time to consider it. I do not rule outsupporting it in future. The ConservativeParty must reflect on the fact that itintroduced these charges. However, we arequite open to ways of developing policy inthe framework of promoting well-being and

Byddwn yn ymatal ar y mater hwn, er bodcydnabyddiaeth dda bellach o’r angen amfesurau iechyd ataliol. Yr ydym yn rhoi pwyspriodol ar y mater hwn. Mae hybu lles yn brifelfen hefyd mewn polisi iechyd. Mae rhai o’rffigurau a ddyfynnwyd yn werth eu hystyriedymhellach. Mae goblygiadau o ran adnoddauyn y mater hwn a bydd arnom angen amser,felly, i’w ystyried. Nid wyf yn diystyru’rposibiliad o’i gefnogi yn y dyfodol. Rhaid i’rBlaid Geidwadol ystyried y ffaith mai hi agyflwynodd y taliadau hyn. Fodd bynnag, yrydym yn eithaf agored i ddulliau newydd oddatblygu polisi o fewn fframwaith o hybu

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preventing ill-health. lles ac atal afiechyd.

The Secretary for Health and SocialServices (Jane Hutt): This is a veryimportant topic, which, as Secretary forHealth and Social Services, I am glad to startdiscussing; it must be a question of startingto discuss it. As Dai Lloyd said, one minuteis not sufficient to allow a proper debate. Myremarks will focus on the appropriateness ofusing a short debate for such an importantdiscussion. However, I will comment onsome points raised.

Yr Ysgrifennydd dros Iechyd aGwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Jane Hutt):Mae hwn yn bwnc pwysig iawn ac yn un yrwyf fi, fel yr Ysgrifennydd dros Iechyd aGwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, yn falch oddechrau ei drafod; rhaid iddo fod yn fater oddechrau ei drafod. Fel y dywedodd DaiLloyd, nid yw un munud yn ddigon i ganiatáudadl briodol. Yn fy sylwadau byddaf yncanolbwyntio ar y priodoldeb o ddefnyddiodadl fer ar gyfer trafodaeth bwysig o’r fath.Fodd bynnag, fe fyddaf yn rhoi sylwadau arrai o’r pwyntiau a godwyd.

Free tests were available until 1 April 1989,when charges were introduced. I have it ongood authority that three Liberal DemocratMPs failed to turn up for the controversialvote, which also attracted some Tory rebels. Iwill name people if you press me. That ispolitics, and I am sure you know theiridentities. I am amused by David saying thathis party will reconsider this issue, althoughit introduced the charges. People outsideGovernment can always reconsider theseissues. In our budgetary and health and socialservices discussions we must consider ourrange of options against a demanding healthand social services agenda, acute ill-healthand our agreement to tackle healthinequalities. We want a primary-led healthservice concentrating on preventive healthcare. We have tough decisions to make andthe Health and Social Services Committeeshould allow adequate time to consider thosechallenges.

Yr oedd profion am ddim ar gael tan 1 Ebrill1989, pryd y cyflwynwyd taliadau. Fe’icefais o le da bod tri o ASau’r DemocratiaidRhyddfrydol wedi methu ymddangos ar gyfery bleidlais ddadleuol, a ddenodd rai rebeliaidTorïaidd hefyd. Fe enwaf rai os pwyswcharnaf. Peth felly yw gwleidyddiaeth, ac yrwyf yn sicr eich bod yn gwybod pwy ydynt.Yr wyf yn ei chael yn ddigrif bod David yndweud y bydd ei blaid ef yn ailystyried ymater hwn, er mai hi a gyflwynodd ytaliadau. Fe all rhai y tu allan i Lywodraethbob amser ailystyried y materion hyn. Yn eintrafodaethau ar y gyllideb ac ar iechyd a’rgwasanaethau cymdeithasol, rhaid inniystyried yr ystod o ddewisiadau sydd gennymochr yn ochr ag agenda iechyd agwasanaethau cymdeithasol trwm, afiechydaciwt a’n cytundeb i fynd i’r afael aganghydraddoldebau mewn iechyd. Yr ydymam gael gwasanaeth iechyd dan arweiniadgofal cynradd sy’n canolbwyntio ar ofaliechyd ataliol. Mae gennym benderfyniadauanodd i’w gwneud a dylai’r Pwyllgor Iechyda Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ganiatáudigon o amser i ystyried y sialensau hynny.

Through this short debate, we have beengiven the opportunity to ensure that peopleover the age of 60, entitled to a free test, willmake use of it. For the Assembly’s benefit, Idraw attention to the fact that 655,450 peopleover 60 could benefit from the newintroduction of free tests from 1 April. Thatis an important point for the Committee.How can we ensure that pensioners takeadvantage of these free eye tests? That is a

Drwy’r ddadl fer hon yr ydym wedi caelcyfle i sicrhau y bydd pobl dros 60 oed, syddâ hawl i gael prawf am ddim, yn arfer yrhawl honno. Er budd y Cynulliad, yr wyf yntynnu sylw at y ffaith y gallai 655,450 o bobldros 60 oed fod ar eu hennill o ganlyniad igyflwyno profion am ddim o 1 Ebrill. Maehynny’n bwynt pwysig i’r Pwyllgor. Sut ygallwn sicrhau bod pensiynwyr yn manteisioar y cyfle hwn i gael prawf llygaid am ddim?

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lot of people: some 22 per cent of the Welshpopulation will benefit from the LabourGovernment’s introduction of free tests forpeople over 60.

Mae hynny’n nifer fawr o bobl: bydd tua 22y cant o boblogaeth Cymru’n elwa argyflwyno profion am ddim i rai dros 60 oedgan y Llywodraeth Lafur.

4:46 p.m.

Let us concentrate today on how to ensurethat they are used. As Jenny said, free eyetests are available for people under 16 andover 60, young people under 19 if they are infull-time education, those on income supportor family credit and the partially sighted.Those who are diagnosed as diabetic or withglaucoma, as well as close relatives ofdiagnosed glaucoma patients aged 40 or over,are also entitled to free eye tests. With goodscreening from GPs and a good primary careled health service, we should be able todetect people who may be in danger of thesediseases.

Gadewch inni ganolbwyntio heddiw ar ymodd i sicrhau defnydd arnynt. Fel ydywedodd Jenny, mae profion llygaid amddim ar gael i bobl o dan 16 oed a dros 60oed, pobl ifanc dan 19 oed os ydynt mewnaddysg lawn-amser, rhai ar gymorth incwmneu gredyd teulu a rhai â golwg rhannol. Maehawl i gael prawf llygaid am ddim hefyd ganrai y canfyddir bod arnynt glefyd siwgwr neuglawcoma, yn ogystal â pherthnasau agos igleifion y canfyddir bod arnynt glawcomasy’n 40 oed neu’n fwy. Gyda sgrinio da ganfeddygon teulu a gwasanaeth iechyd da danarweiniad gofal cynradd, dylem allu canfodpobl a allai fod mewn perygl oddi wrth yclefydau hyn.

Let us make use of the debate that we havehad. It is vital that we ensure that this largenumber—over 600,000 people—takeadvantage of these new tests. We know thatthose who pay for eye tests are basicallypeople of working age from families with anincome above benefit level. From 1 April thepopulation entitlement to new NHS tests hasrisen from 40 per cent to 60 per cent. Whenwe come to debate this and our otherchallenges in the budget discussions, there isan estimate that it will cost £12 million ayear if extended free NHS eye tests are givento the whole population. We have to takethose kinds of figures into the context of thetough challenges that we face in the healthservice. Given the fact that £1 billion extrahas been put into the NHS by the LabourGovernment, we still have tremendouslytough challenges ahead if we are going toturn the NHS into a health service that istackling ill-health, inequality and providingpreventative health care.

Gadewch inni wneud defnydd o’r ddadl agawsom. Mae’n hollbwysig inni sicrhau body nifer fawr yma—dros 600,000 o bobl—ynmanteisio ar y profion newydd hyn.Gwyddom mai’r rhai sy’n talu am brofionllygaid yn y bôn yw pobl mewn oed gweithioo deuluoedd sydd ag incwm uwchlaw’r lefelbudd-daliadau. Oddi ar 1 Ebrill mae’r gyfrano’r boblogaeth sydd â hawl i dderbyn profionnewydd yr NHS wedi codi o 40 y cant i 60 ycant. Pan ddeuwn i drafod hyn a’n sialensaueraill yn y trafodaethau ar y gyllideb, feamcangyfrifir y bydd yn costio £12 miliwn yflwyddyn os rhoddir profion llygaidestynedig di-dâl yr NHS i’r boblogaethgyfan. Rhaid inni ystyried ffigurau o’r fathyng nghyd-destun y sialensau anodd awynebwn yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Ganwybod bod £1 biliwn yn ychwanegol wedi eiroi i’r NHS gan y Llywodraeth Lafur, maegennym sialensau aruthrol o anodd o’n blaeno hyd os ydym i droi’r NHS yn wasanaethiechyd sy’n mynd i’r afael ag afiechyd,anghydraddoldeb ac yn darparu gofal iechydataliol.

Thank you Jenny for bringing this to ourattention. We must make more of this newprovision for free eye tests for the over 60’s.It is the age when a great deal of ill-health

Diolch, Jenny, am ddod â hyn i’n sylw.Rhaid inni wneud mwy o’r ddarpariaethnewydd hon o brofion llygaid am ddim i raidros 60 oed. Mae’n oedran pryd y bydd

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and difficulty occurs. Let us ensure thatpeople make use of free eye tests. Let usensure that this is part of our debate aboutour budgetary priorities in the coming year.As far as this resolution is concerned, wecannot support it for the reasons set out soably by Ieuan Wyn Jones and Dai Lloyd.This is a big debate that has to be put in thecontext of a policy discussion on budgetarypriorities. A short debate is not a place forthat, although we can start a discussion as aresult of it. On that basis, we do not acceptthe resolution but look forward to furthergreat debates on the subject at another time.

llawer iawn o afiechyd ac anhawster yndigwydd. Gadewch inni sicrhau bod pobl yndefnyddio profion llygaid am ddim. Gadewchinni sicrhau bod hyn yn rhan o’n trafodaetham ein blaenoriaethau yn y gyllideb yn yflwyddyn sydd i ddod. Gyda golwg ar ycynnig hwn, ni allwn ei gefnogi am yrhesymau a nodwyd mor fedrus gan IeuanWyn Jones a Dai Lloyd. Mae hon yn ddadlfawr y bydd raid ei rhoi yng nghyd-destuntrafodaeth bolisi ar flaenoriaethau yn ygyllideb. Nid dadl fer yw’r lle i hynny, er ygallwn ddechrau trafodaeth o ganlyniad iddi.Ar y sail honno, nid ydym yn derbyn ycynnig ond edrychwn ymlaen at ddadleuonmawr pellach ar y pwnc ar adeg arall.

A vote was held by show of hands.Motion rejected.

Cynhaliwyd pleidlais drwy ddangos dwylo.Gwrthodwyd y cynnig.

Y Llywydd: Dyna ddiwedd gweithgareddauheddiw. Yr wyf yn dod â’r sesiwn i ben.

The Presiding Officer: That is the end oftoday’s activities. I draw the session to aclose.

Daeth y sesiwn i ben am 4:50 p.m.The session ended at 4:50 p.m.

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Atebion i Gwestiynau nas Cyrhaeddwyd yn y Sesiwn LlawnAnswers to Questions not Reached in Plenary

Cwestiynau i’r Prif YsgrifennyddQuestions to the First Secretary

Problems of Disrepair in Schools

Q6 Lynne Neagle: What plans are there to tackle problems of disrepair in schools in Wales?(OAQ306VB)

The First Secretary: Provision of basic credit approvals (BCAs) in the annual localgovernment revenue settlement is £42.9 million for 1999-2000. Planned provision for 2000-01 and 2001-2002 rises to £44.4 million and £54.9m million respectively . It is for individuallocal authorities to decide how much of their BCAs to allocate to education and thereafterwhich schools should benefit in the light of local needs and priorities.

Problemau Dadfeilio Ysgolion

C6 Lynne Neagle: Pa gynlluniau sydd ar y gweill i fynd i’r afael â phroblemau dadfeilioysgolion yng Nghymru? (OAQ306VB)

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Yn y taliad refeniw blynyddol ar gyfer llywodraeth leol, ceirdarpariaeth o £42.9 miliwn ar gyfer taliadau credyd sylfaenol cymeradwy (BCA) 1999-2000.Mae’r ddarpariaeth arfaethedig ar gyfer 2000-01 yn codi i £44.4 miliwn ac i £54.9 miliwn yn2001-2002. Penderfyniad i’r awdurdodau lleol eu hunain yw faint o’u BCA maent yn eiddyrannu i addysg ac, wedi hynny, pa ysgolion a ddylai elwa yn ôl y blaenoriaethau a’ranghenion lleol.

Private Finance Initiative Bids

Q7 Brian Gibbons: What are the specific criteria by which PFI bids will be judged againsttheir public comparator in Wales? (OAQ307VB)

The First Secretary: The criterion for judging PFI bids against a public sector comparator isvalue for money for the public purse.

Cynigion Menter Cyllid Preifat

C7 Brian Gibbons: Pa feini prawf penodol a ddefnyddir i farnu cynigion MCP yn erbyn eucymharydd cyhoeddus yng Nghymru? (OAQ307VB)

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Y maen prawf a ddefnyddir i farnu cynigion MCP yn erbyncymharydd yn y sector cyhoeddus yw gwerth am arian i bwrs y wlad.

Examinations for Welsh Sixth-formers

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Q8 Jonathan Morgan: Does the First Secretary have any plans to replace the current A-levels with another form of examination for Welsh sixth-formers? (OAQ296VB)Withdrawn.

Arholi Plant Chweched Dosbarth Cymru

C8 Jonathan Morgan: A oes gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd gynlluniau i ddisodli’r safonau uwchpresennol gyda ffordd arall o arholi plant chweched dosbarth Cymru? (OAQ296VB)Tynnwyd yn ôl.

Small Companies (1997 and 1998)

Q9 Michael German: How many companies of fewer than 50 employees were established inWales in 1997 and 1998 and how many closed in the same years? (OAQ310VB)

The First Secretary: The most recent published figures, which are for 1997, give 6,240VAT registrations and 6,320 de-registrations in Wales. Nearly all of these businesses havefewer than 50 employees. There are no official figures on the numbers of start-ups andclosures of the businesses in Wales which are not VAT-registered.

Cwmnïau Bach (1997 a 1998)

C9 Michael German: Faint o gwmnïau gyda llai na 50 o weithwyr a sefydlwyd yngNghymru ym 1997 a 1998 a faint o gwmnïau felly a ddaeth i ben yn yr un blynyddoedd?(OAQ310VB)

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Mae’r ffigyrau diweddaraf, ar gyfer 1997, yn dangos bod 6,240 ogwmnïau wedi cofrestru ar gyfer TAW a 6,320 wedi dadgofrestru yng Nghymru. Mae bronpob un o’r busnesau hyn yn cyflogi llai na 50 o weithwyr. Nid oes unrhyw ffigyrauswyddogol sy’n dangos faint o fusnesau sy’n cael eu sefydlu a faint sy’n dod i ben yngNghymru nad ydynt wedi eu cofrestru ar gyfer TAW.

Financial Problems in Hospitals

Q10 David Melding: What action is the First Secretary taking to resolve the financialproblems now being experienced by half of all hospitals in Wales? (OAQ295JS)Withdrawn.

Problemau Ariannol mewn Ysbytai

C10 David Melding: Pa gamau y mae’r Prif Ysgrifennydd yn eu cymryd i ddatrys yproblemau ariannol sy’n wynebu hanner yr ysbytai yng Nghymru? (OAQ295JS) Tynnwydyn ôl.

Spending Limits for Local Authorities

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Q11 Nick Bourne: Does the First Secretary intend to propose that spending limits for localauthorities and other public bodies in Wales be relaxed to help match EU funds?(OAQ289JS)

The First Secretary: I refer the Assembly Member to my previous answer to Q4(OAQ303VB) tabled by Pauline Jarman, which was given in Plenary today [p.19].

Cyfyngiadau Gwario ar yr Awdurdodau Lleol

C11 Nick Bourne: A yw’n fwriad gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd gynnig llacio’r cyfyngiadaugwario ar yr awdurdodau lleol a’r cyrff cyhoeddus eraill yng Nghymru er mwyn helpu isicrhau arian cyfatebol ar gyfer cronfeydd yr UE? (OAQ289JS)

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Cyfeiriaf yr Aelod at fy ateb blaenorol i G4 (OAQ303VB) agyflwynwyd gan Pauline Jarman ac a roddwyd gerbron y sesiwn llawn heddiw [t.19.]

Eastern Bay Link Road

Q12 Lorraine Barrett: What plans are in place for the completion of the eastern bay linkroad? (OAQ297VB)

The First Secretary: The scheme is estimated to cost £158 million and the responsibility lieswith Cardiff County Council as local highway authority. It is being supported under thetransport grant arrangements and is receiving funding of £2.4 million towards continuingpreparation costs including work involved in relocating Cardiff Heliport in 1999-2000. Bidsfor 2000-2001 will be invited shortly and any bid for the eastern bay link will need to beconsidered alongside the other bids we receive for the available grant resources.

Ffordd Gyswllt Dwyrain y Bae

C12 Lorraine Barrett: Pa gynlluniau sydd ar y gweill i gwblhau ffordd gyswllt dwyrain ybae? (OAQ297VB)

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Amcangyfrifir y bydd y cynllun yn costio £158 miliwn a Chyngor SirCaerdydd, fel yr awdurdod priffyrdd lleol, sy’n gyfrifol amdano. Caiff ei gefnogi gan ytrefniadau grantiau trafnidiaeth ac mae’n derbyn cyllid o £2.4 miliwn tuag at y costau paratoiparhaus gan gynnwys y gwaith sy’n gysylltiedig ag adleoli Hofrenfa Caerdydd yn 1999-2000.Bydd ceisiadau ar gyfer 2000-2001 yn cael eu gwahodd maes o law a bydd yn rhaid ystyriedunrhyw gais a ddaw i law ar gyfer ffordd gyswllt dwyrain y bae ar y cyd â cheisiadau eraill adderbyniwn am yr adnoddau grant sydd ar gael.

Effeithiau Glo Brig

C13 Rhodri Glyn Thomas: A yw’n fwriad gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd gyflwyno argymhellion iddiogelu cymunedau rhag effeithiau glo brig ar sail y canllawiau a gyhoeddwyd ganSwyddfa’r Alban? (OAQ308JS)

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Fe’ch cyfeiriaf at yr ateb a roddwyd gan Peter Law ar 30 Mehefin(Cofnod 30.06.99, t.6). Wrth baratoi Nodyn Cyfarwyddyd Cynllunio Mwynau 3 (Cymru)‘Cloddio am Lo a Gwaredu Gwastraff Glo’, mae’n bwysig rhoi ystyriaeth lawn i farn y rheiniyr ymgynghorir â hwy a bod y canllaw yn rhoi ystyriaeth briodol i amgylchiadau Cymru.

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Mae’r canllaw yn cael ei baratoi gyda gofal mawr, yng ngoleuni’r hyn a gyhoeddwyd ynddiweddar yn Lloegr a’r Alban. Caiff y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol, yr Amgylchedd,Cynllunio, Tai a Thrafnidiaeth gyfle i ystyried y canllaw cyn ei gyhoeddi.

Effects of Opencast Mining

Q13 Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Does the First Secretary intend making recommendations tosafeguard Welsh communities from the effects of opencast mining based on the guidelinesissued by the Scottish Office? (OAQ308JS)

The First Secretary: I refer you to the answer given by Peter Law on 30 June (RoP30.06.99, p.6). In taking forward Mineral Planning Guidance Note 3 (Wales) Coal Miningand Colliery Spoil Disposal it is important that the views of consultees are taken into accountand that the note properly addresses circumstances in Wales. Careful consideration is beinggiven to the preparation of the guidance in the light of that recently published in England andScotland. The Local Government, Environment, Planning, Housing and Transport Committeewill have the opportunity to consider the guidance before it is issued.

National Lottery Funding

Q14 John Griffiths: Will the First Secretary consider acting to achieve a more equitabledistribution of national lottery funding in Wales? (OAQ302VB)

The First Secretary: Recent changes in legislation and in the policy directions given tolottery distributors should ensure that distribution of lottery funds in Wales is more evenlyspread. We will be monitoring distribution in Wales and discussing with each of thedistributors the steps they are taking to redress any imbalance.

Arian y Loteri Genedlaethol

C14 John Griffiths: A wna’r Prif Ysgrifennydd ystyried gweithredu i sicrhau bod arian yloteri genedlaethol yn cael ei ddosbarthu’n decach yng Nghymru? (OAQ302VB)

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Dylai’r newidiadau diweddar mewn deddfwriaeth ac yn ycyfarwyddiadau polisi a roddir i ddosbarthwyr y loteri sicrhau bod dosbarthiad cyllid y loteriyn fwy cyson drwy Gymru. Byddwn yn monitro’r dosbarthiad yng Nghymru ac yn trafodgyda phob un o’r dosbarthwyr pa gamau maent yn eu cymryd i unioni unrhyw anghysonder.

Administration of European Programmes

Q15 Elin Jones: Will the First Secretary give an assurance that there will be no impact onthe administration of Objective 1 and other European programmes as a result of themanagement and payments of the European Social Fund being a matter for the Departmentfor Education and Employment? (OAQ290JS)

The First Secretary: I am in discussion with the Secretary of State for Education andEmployment about arrangements under which responsibility for payments and financialmanagement of ESF in Wales would transfer to the National Assembly for Wales from 2000.The terms, which will, of course, need to be acceptable to the Assembly, will ensure that fullcontrol of the entire financial process will be exercised here in Wales.

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Gweinyddiaeth Rhaglenni Ewropeaidd

C15 Elin Jones: A wna’r Prif Ysgrifennydd roi sicrwydd na fydd y ffaith mai mater i’rAdran Addysg a Chyflogaeth fydd rheolaeth a thaliadau Cronfa Gymdeithasol Ewrop yn caelunrhyw effaith ar weinyddiaeth rhaglen Amcan 1 a rhaglenni Ewropeaidd eraill?(OAQ290JS)

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Yr wyf wrthi’n cynnal trafodaethau gyda’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladoldros Addysg a Chyflogaeth am y trefniadau ar gyfer trosglwyddo’r cyfrifoldeb dros daliadaua rheolaeth ariannol y Gronfa yng Nghymru i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru o 2000 ymlaen.Bydd y telerau, y bydd yn rhaid iddynt fod yn dderbyniol i’r Cynulliad wrth gwrs, yn sicrhaumai yma yng Nghymru yr arddelir y rheolaeth lawn dros y broses ariannol yn ei chrynswth.

Royal Mint (Review)

Q16 Jane Davidson: Will the First Secretary make an early statement on the potentialeconomic impact of the review of the Royal Mint carried out last year? (OAQ312JG)

The First Secretary: Decisions about the future of the Royal Mint are for HM Treasury andthe outcome of the review is yet to be published. The Mint is a major employer in one of thepoorest areas of Wales. Jobs at the Mint are high quality and high skilled and it is importantthat we retain them. I have ensured that the Treasury is fully aware of this.

Y Bathdy Brenhinol (Adolygiad)

C16 Jane Davidson: A wna’r Prif Ysgrifennydd ddatganiad yn fuan ar effaith economaiddbosibl yr adolygiad o’r Bathdy Brenhinol a gynhaliwyd y llynedd? (OAQ312JG)

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Trysorlys Ei Mawrhydi sy’n gyfrifol am benderfyniadau ynghylchdyfodol y Bathdy Brenhinol ac nid yw canlyniad yr adolygiad wedi ei gyhoeddi eto. Mae’rBathdy yn gyflogwr mawr, a hynny yn un o ardaloedd tlotaf Cymru. Mae swyddi’r Bathdyyn rhai sgilgar a safonol ac mae’n bwysig ein bod yn dal gafael arnynt. Yr wyf wedi sicrhaubod y Trysorlys yn gwbl ymwybodol o hyn.

Castle Quays Development (Swansea)

Q17 David Lloyd: In light of increasing public concern in relation to the Castle Quaysdevelopment in Swansea, will the First Secretary make a statement on this development?(OAQ304JS)

The First Secretary: This is a matter for Swansea City Council, which granted planningpermission for this development early this year. I have no observations to make on theproposal.

Datblygiad Castle Quays (Abertawe)

C17 David Lloyd: Yng ngoleuni pryder cynyddol ymhlith y cyhoedd mewn perthynas âdatblygiad Castle Quays yn Abertawe, a wna’r Prif Ysgrifennydd ddatganiad ynghylch ydatblygiad hwn? (OAQ304JS)

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Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Mater i Gyngor Dinas Abertawe yw hyn; hwy a roddodd ganiatâdcynllunio ar gyfer y datblygiad hwn yn gynharach eleni. Nid oes gennyf unrhyw sylwadauam y cynigion.

Farm Incomes

Q18 Kirsty Williams: What steps will the First Secretary take to maintain farm incomesfollowing reform of Hill Livestock Compensatory Allowance payments? (OAQ309VB)

The First Secretary: The consultation paper on HLCA reform explained that we are indiscussion with the Commission about the transitional arrangements that will apply duringthe year 2000 to try to maintain farmers’ cash flow.

The new area-based compensation scheme will be an integral part of a seven-year programmeand subject to evaluation during the life of the programme. We are committed to the task ofhelping the industry to adapt so that agriculture in Wales is sustainable and viable. Thedevelopment of the agri-food strategy is an important element of this policy.

Incwm Ffermydd

C18 Kirsty Williams: Pa gamau y bydd y Prif Ysgrifennydd yn eu cymryd i gynnal incwmffermydd yn sgîl adolygu taliadau Lwfans Iawndal Da Byw Tir Uchel? (OAQ309VB)

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Yr oedd y papur ymgynghori ynghylch diwygio’r Lwfans hwn ynegluro ein bod wrthi’n trafod y trefniadau trosiannol ar gyfer y flwyddyn 2000 gyda’rComisiwn er mwyn ceisio cynnal llif arian ffermwyr.

Bydd y cynllun iawndal fesul-ardal newydd yn rhan annatod o raglen saith mlynedd a byddyn cael ei werthuso yn ystod oes y rhaglen. Yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i’r gwaith o helpu’rdiwydiant i addasu fel bod amaethyddiaeth yng Nghymru yn gynaliadwy ac yn hyfyw. Maedatblygu’r strategaeth bwyd-amaeth yn elfen bwysig o’r polisi hwn.

Centre for Sporting Excellence

Q19 Janet Ryder: What plans does the First Secretary have to develop a centre for sportingexcellence in north Wales? (OAQ353VB)

The First Secretary: The Sports Council for Wales decides on the location, developmentand funding of individual centres of excellence. The council itself already operates twocentres of excellence in Wales: the Welsh Institute for Sport based at Sophia Gardens inCardiff and the National Watersports Centre for Wales at Plas Menai on the Menai Straitsnear Bangor.

The Sports Council is working in partnership with Gwynedd Council to develop a nationalcentre for competitive sailing at Pwllheli. The Sports Council also supports the NationalCanoe Centre at Tryweryn, which hosted the World Championships in 1996.

The English Sports Council operate a National Centre for Mountain Activities at Plas-y-Brenin in Gwynedd.

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In addition to these major centres of excellence, the Sports Council for Wales has providedfinancial support for local, but substantial, facilities such as the floodlit athletics track atDeeside College, the international standard ice rink in Flintshire and the new Mold stand atWrexham football stadium, and the North Wales Tennis Centre at Wrexham.

Canolfan Ragoriaeth Chwaraeon

C19 Janet Ryder: Pa gynlluniau sydd gan y Prif Ysgrifennydd i ddatblygu canolfanragoriaeth chwaraeon yng ngogledd Cymru? (OAQ353VB)

Y Prif Ysgrifennydd: Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru sy’n penderfynu ar leoliad, datblygiad achyllido canolfannau rhagoriaeth unigol. Mae’r cyngor ei hun eisoes yn cynnal dwy ganolfanragoriaeth yng Nghymru: Athrofa Chwaraeon Cymru yng Ngerddi Sophia yng Nghaerdydd aChanolfan Chwaraeon Dŵr Genedlaethol Cymru ym Mhlas Menai ar lan y Fenai ger Bangor.

Y mae’r Cyngor Chwaraeon yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth gyda Chyngor Gwynedd iddatblygu canolfan genedlaethol ar gyfer hwylio cystadleuol ym Mhwllheli. Mae’r CyngorChwaraeon hefyd yn cefnogi’r Ganolfan Ganŵio Genedlaethol yn Nhryweryn, llecynhaliwyd Pencampwriaethau’r Byd yn 1996.

Mae Cyngor Chwaraeon Lloegr yn cynnal Canolfan Weithgareddau Mynydd Genedlaetholym Mhlas-y-Brenin yng Ngwynedd.

Yn ogystal â’r prif ganolfannau rhagoriaeth hyn, mae Cyngor Chwaraeon Cymru wedi cynnigcefnogaeth ariannol i gyfleusterau lleol, ond sylweddol, fel trac athletau llifoleuedig ColegGlannau Dyfrdwy, y ganolfan sglefrio o safon ryngwladol yn Sir y Fflint, stand yr Wyddgrugyn stadiwm pêl-droed Wrecsam, a Chanolfan Denis Gogledd Cymru yn Wrecsam.